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re: "Conservatism" has to be more than just a defensive posture
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:52 am to Wishing Well
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:52 am to Wishing Well
quote:
I'm merely pointing out that the idea that real conservatism today is "anti" change is absurd.
"OMG, something isnt working like I want so government needs to do something" is how Statist think.
OMG, the something isnt working like I want, so government needs to be reigned in" is the conservative stance.
1
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:53 am to burger bearcat
quote:
When the left gets power, their primary goal after that is to accumulate more power. The right does not think this way at all. What is the conservatives plan to deal with the 10 million illegals that came here under Biden's watch?
I guess they will just have to send a couple hundred billion more to Ukraine.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's not going to help with the deficit and will likely only keep increasing it.
Nah, once funded you can offer a much better retirement for much less money. It's one thing Canada does right. Short term hit for long term stability.
At least last time I looked at it, 15 years ago before democrats and their lying media lapdogs crushed it, you could find the shortfall with the employer contribution and offer more money to participants through investing their contribution.
It's probably materially worse now after 15 years, but almost still certainly what needs to be done.
quote:
Social security has to be a Target of decreased spending for deficit purposes. However they won't even talk about a decrease just to keep the program solvent let alone have an overall decrease and spending to make it net positive for our budget and deficit
You're stuck in a tax and spend straight line thought process when the fix to this is to get the funds compounding and let economic growth get us out of this hole.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:56 am to SDVTiger
quote:
He voted for Murkawski mutiple times. What a conservative
So you would have voted for the Democrat in a 2 party race? Sounds about right.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:56 am to burger bearcat
quote:
And with the makeup of the electorate, the majority of it is not interested in and never will be in what you are wanting
Correct. Which is why we have two 80 year old Statists with progressive tendencies representing us.
The population isnt educated nor moral enough for limited govt, which is why there will eventually be a split.
You may be surprised which side many MAGA folks choose... I can promise most arent really conservative.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:56 am to burger bearcat
By it's very name and definition. Conservative is more reserved and deliberate relying on incrementalism and wary of knee jerk reaction.
Progressive by definition and action is more immediate.....because " we can't wait"
Progressive by definition and action is more immediate.....because " we can't wait"
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:58 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
"OMG, something isnt working like I want so government needs to do something" is how Statist think.
I used to refer to this as the "They oughtta" mindset.
Ever time you see a problem, you think to yourself, "they oughtta" as if there's some miraculous all knowing "they" out there comprised of angels and saints.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:04 am to Wishing Well
quote:
I used to refer to this as the "They oughtta" mindset.
Ever time you see a problem, you think to yourself, "they oughtta" as if there's some miraculous all knowing "they" out there comprised of angels and saints.
Again. I'm not really advocating for Republicans to just go so things out of the bounds of the legal and moral bounds.
But we should recognize the current system for what it is, and not necessarily what we want it to be. We can certainly take strides towards that system, but we still have to operate under the current system in place, or otherwise we are just fighting at an unnecessary disadvantage.
What if Saul Alynskey and George Soros were conservatives? What would they do that we aren't willing to do achieve good outcomes?
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 10:07 am
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:09 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Freidman, Ron Paul, Massey, etc.
I've noticed we agree on a lot and I see why. Give me Rothbard over Friedman but we're on the same page
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:10 am to burger bearcat
quote:
When the left gets power, their primary goal after that is to accumulate more power by any means necessary.
Agree with you burger bearcat, and added a little more.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:13 am to burger bearcat
quote:
When the left gets power, their primary goal after that is to accumulate more power.
Unfortunately, the left has managed to make words like conservatism and nationalism have a strong negative connotation. This, in part has been accomplished through their gaslighting tactics the past several years though all means of media.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:15 am to RogerTheShrubber
Most of what is passing today as conservative, really isn't. It's the opposite side of the same coin which could be considered progressive.The only debate is the direction. Which overwhelming intrusive and activist reaction do I prefer.
Both the mainstream conservatives and the old moderate liberals are getting squeezed by the two extremes to the point to where imperfect but reasonable consensus has become a dirty term.
Both the mainstream conservatives and the old moderate liberals are getting squeezed by the two extremes to the point to where imperfect but reasonable consensus has become a dirty term.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:19 am to KiwiHead
quote:
Most of what is passing today as conservative, really isn't. It's the opposite side of the same coin which could be considered progressive
Absolutely.
Trump and Bush are more progressive in their governance than conservative.
quote:
Both the mainstream conservatives and the old moderate liberals are getting squeezed by the two extremes
Yes, it feels like normal people have become abnormal, and common sense has been replaced by emotion.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 10:21 am
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:20 am to Wishing Well
quote:
First of all, this is false. It's just the characterization that liberals like to use(congrats on exposing yourself again). They use it to basically say conservatives are merely people with their finger in the dike.
Then what is being "conserved"?
quote:
actual conservatism in the United States at any point in the near future would be MASSIVE change on a scale not seen since FDR. By definition, today, conservatives are the ones who want substantial change. L
To go back in time, again, to reverse the aforementioned changes in society.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:22 am to Lizardman2
quote:
Unfortunately, the left has managed to make words like conservatism and nationalism have a strong negative connotation.
Mainly because Conservatives are pretending to be conservatives.
We love debt, taxes, spending, social intervention.... just as much as the other guy now.
We have a presidential choice of two progressives IMO.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 10:23 am
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:23 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
and let economic growth get us out of this hole.
Not really possible. Do the math and calculate what sort of GDP increase we will need (assuming no extra government spending and a return in taxers of 20% of GDP).
Every $100B in tax growth will require $500B in private sector GDP expansion. Our current deficit is $1.6T, so just to get even (ignoring the debt), our private sector GDP will have to increase what, $8T?
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:25 am to Paddyshack
quote:
In fact, we do have one candidate who has proven he can take blows and dish them out as well. I know you don't appreciate that.
I would love this.
Too bad we dont have anyone doing this. Donny is still preaching to his choir, and will continue to do so until election day.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and let economic growth get us out of this hole.
Not really possible
This is what Trump proposed he would do to tackle debt, and he did nothing but stack it up.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:26 am to burger bearcat
Need to attack the gov which is trying to take rights away. Not play defense all the time.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:33 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This is what Trump proposed he would do to tackle debt, and he did nothing but stack it up.
Growing our economy can help, but it can't be the primary focus.
We have to maintain our GDP while drastically cutting spending (which will, in turn, lower GDP, creating the need for more cuts).
We would need to add trillions to our private-sector GDP immediately just to tackle the deficit (not debt).
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