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Message
re: Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:12 pm to BiteMe2020
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:12 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
This is a fairly typical atheist temper tantrum. Nobody needs the Bible to know morality. The Bible is not only a book that has moral lessons. If the Bible was nothing more than a book on morality, nobody would need it.
Nobody needs the Bible, or god* to know morality.
1
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:12 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Morality is for me and thee, but not for He?
If I take a life, I'm powerless to restore it elsewhere.
I'm not God. Nobody posting here is, either.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:13 pm to MJforPrez
quote:
Nobody needs the Bible, or god* to know morality.
This isn't a claim of Christianity in the first place, so congratulations.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:14 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
This isn't a claim of Christianity in the first place, so congratulations.
Did you not say that a system of morals without god is doomed to fail?
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:15 pm to BiteMe2020
How do you know what is a "typical" atheist temper tantrum?
How do you know if such a thing exists?
How do you know if such a thing exists?
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:16 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
What's God's is God's and what's not yours is not yours.
I know what you believe. But what I said is true. At best you're in the same position, and at worse you're in an even more difficult position.
Perhaps I cannot objectively say what Hitler did was wrong. But you can also not objectively say that God drowning children was wrong.
At least my moral code allows me to disagree, even if I cannot point to an objective fact. Your moral code doesn't even allow you to disagree when God drowns children.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:16 pm to MJforPrez
quote:
Did you not say that a system of morals without god is doomed to fail?
Sure I did. God is not a human like you or I.
If you are the Creator of Everything, everything belongs to you.
And yes, logically, atheists are hard pressed to logically ground morality if they are moral objectivists.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:19 pm to BiteMe2020
[
And my point was, you don’t need god for a system of morals. Just ask Jimmy Swaggart.
quote:
Sure I did
And my point was, you don’t need god for a system of morals. Just ask Jimmy Swaggart.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:20 pm to MJforPrez
quote:
And my point was, you don’t need god for a system of morals. Just ask Jimmy Swaggart.
I never said you did. You can have a system of morals all you want without God. It might or might not be jumbled incoherent BS, too. You just can't logically ground that with a rigorous argument, which was the point.
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:27 pm to nitwit
quote:
How do you know what is a "typical" atheist temper tantrum?
How do you know if such a thing exists?
Because over the past 25 years, I've read several thousand atheist comments just like the ones getting posted here, lol.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:29 pm to Azkiger
quote:
I know what you believe. But what I said is true. At best you're in the same position, and at worse you're in an even more difficult position.
Perhaps I cannot objectively say what Hitler did was wrong. But you can also not objectively say that God drowning children was wrong.
At least my moral code allows me to disagree, even if I cannot point to an objective fact. Your moral code doesn't even allow you to disagree when God drowns children.
If God takes His own back, that's His decision. He created us all. Every heard the phrase by a mother, "I brought you into this world, I can take you out of it"?
I cannot say that anything God does is wrong. God does not do wrong.
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:29 pm to BiteMe2020
My system of morals is grounded in well being.
Seems very logical to me.
Yours is grounded in a book of stories.
Seems very illogical to me.
Seems very logical to me.
Yours is grounded in a book of stories.
Seems very illogical to me.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:31 pm to Hammer of Rod
quote:
My system of morals is grounded in well being.
Seems very logical to me.
Yours is grounded in a book of stories.
Seems very illogical to me.
Okay, simply prove, logically, that Stalin or Biden or Hitler should have cared about your well being or those of their contemporaries.
I'll wait for your logical proof.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:32 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
What's God's is God's and what's not yours is not yours.
This possible critique is slightly off topic, but that has caused a lightbulb to go off in my head.
I've often heard Christians, like yourself, say that God owns people and he can do with them as he wishes. If he wants to drown children, he has every right.
Isn't it interesting that on the one hand God owns us and can do with us whatever he wants, but at the same time we're responsible for our own salvation... Holding someone responsible for their own actions is granting them ownership of themselves and by extension their actions. It seems God wants his cake and wants to eat it too.
He either owns us and is responsible for our misdeeds, or he doesn't own us and we're responsible for ourselves.
I'll think on it a bit more, but on the surface it does appear to be yet another contradiction within Christianity.
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:34 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
I cannot say that anything God does is wrong. God does not do wrong.
Exactly. At least I can have my opinion about what others do, you're locked in with respect to your child drowning god.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:36 pm to Azkiger
quote:
This possible critique is slightly off topic, but this has caused a lightbulb to go off in my head.
I've often heard Christians, like yourself, say that God owns people and he can do with them as he wishes. If he wants to drown children, he has every right.
Isn't it interesting that one the one hand God owns us and can do with us whatever he wants, but at the same time we're responsible for our own salvation... Holding someone responsible for their own actions is granting them ownership of themselves and by extension their actions. It seems God wants his cake and wants to eat it too.
He either owns us and is responsible for our misdeeds, or he doesn't own us and we're responsible for ourselves.
That's not right. God gave us free will, which allows you the freedom to do what you desire, including reject Him. That doesn't mean He still does not own His creation.
quote:
I'll think on it a bit more, but on the surface it does appear to be yet another contradiction within Christianity.
It's not a contradiction at all.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:38 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
That's not right. God gave us free will, which allows you the freedom to do what you desire, including reject Him. That doesn't mean He still does not own His creation.
So legally speaking, if my 9 year old daughter breaks something of yours I cannot be held responsible for it?
I would be, not my daughter. Moreover I'm told our legal system was built on Judeo-Christian values
Freewill should give us ownership over ourselves. We either own ourselves or we don't. If we don't how can we be held accountable for what we do?
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:49 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
Okay, simply prove, logically, that Stalin or Biden or Hitler should have cared about your well being or those of their contemporaries.
I'll wait for your logical proof.
You are making a positive claim that morality comes from God. I made no claim what Stalin, Hitler, Biden, or anyone cares or cared about. I can and did speak for myself.
First give me proof that your God exsists
ETA. Btw, now it’s Biden, hitler, and Stalin all grouped together? What a crazy world
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:57 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Exactly. At least I can have my opinion about what others do, you're locked in with respect to your child drowning god.
I tend to prefer logic, not opinions, when it comes to religion basics.
Posted on 3/4/21 at 1:57 pm to Azkiger
quote:
So legally speaking, if my 9 year old daughter breaks something of yours I cannot be held responsible for it?
I would be, not my daughter. Moreover I'm told our legal system was built on Judeo-Christian values
Freewill should give us ownership over ourselves. We either own ourselves or we don't. If we don't how can we be held accountable for what we do?
You're not God, neither am I. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Free will gives you ownership over your actions, not your person as it relates to God.
This post was edited on 3/4/21 at 2:00 pm
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