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re: Coal Update: not great
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:09 am to 90proofprofessional
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:09 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Can this be stopped by our leaders in government, or anyone at all?
Well, considering it absolutely was CAUSED by "leaders in government" (note exactly when the "downturn" started" - something something bankrupt coal companies), I suspect something can be done to mitigate it.
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 10:11 am
1
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:14 am to 90proofprofessional
We've projected a steady to 4% increase next year in KY / WV areas. There are places out West that will fare well too.
There are deals by companies I will not name that are immense in scale.
There are deals by companies I will not name that are immense in scale.
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:21 am to Parmen
quote:
Besides Rick Perry, people in the energy department are likely careerists hold overs from Obama. It means nothing to me
It wouldn't mean anything to you if Trump handed to you himself. You would be convinced that a hypnotist made him sign it and bring it to you. You're a lost soul in a completely indoctrinated human being with no hope
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:23 am to 90proofprofessional
This thread is strange. The OP seems to be excited about the reduction in coal use in the U.S. He doesn’t exactly say why, but it seems he is cheerleading any news that contrandicts a Trump talking point and/or supports an Obama talking point.
1) Coal is one of many fossil fuels. It has historically been the cheapest to get (highly abundant), especially in the U.S. It used to be quite dirty to burn, but new technologies have made it very clean (but also more expensive to process).
2) Older coal plants in the U.S. were mostly retrofitted to be clean burning plants, but they are more expensive to maintain, and they often aren’t as clean as advertised.
3) Electrical plants are expensive to build and require confidence in the long term profitability of the technology. Government involvement is a critical factor in promoting or stifling any particular technology. Even perceived instability, like the anti-coal rhetoric of Obama and the climate change alarmists.
4) Fracking has opened the door to cheaper natural gas and oil. Natural gas is cheaper and and cleaner than coal, but it requires investment in new plants and more importantly, in transit and storage systems.
5) Coal remains the cheapest choice for many developing countries mainly because of the relative ease of transporting it and storing it. Even if the U.S. doesn’t use it for our electricity needs, there is still a global market for coal, except for the resistance of the climate change alarmist agenda.
So this latest news is interesting, but it doesn’t really support or refute either Trump’s or Obama’s talking points.
1) Coal is one of many fossil fuels. It has historically been the cheapest to get (highly abundant), especially in the U.S. It used to be quite dirty to burn, but new technologies have made it very clean (but also more expensive to process).
2) Older coal plants in the U.S. were mostly retrofitted to be clean burning plants, but they are more expensive to maintain, and they often aren’t as clean as advertised.
3) Electrical plants are expensive to build and require confidence in the long term profitability of the technology. Government involvement is a critical factor in promoting or stifling any particular technology. Even perceived instability, like the anti-coal rhetoric of Obama and the climate change alarmists.
4) Fracking has opened the door to cheaper natural gas and oil. Natural gas is cheaper and and cleaner than coal, but it requires investment in new plants and more importantly, in transit and storage systems.
5) Coal remains the cheapest choice for many developing countries mainly because of the relative ease of transporting it and storing it. Even if the U.S. doesn’t use it for our electricity needs, there is still a global market for coal, except for the resistance of the climate change alarmist agenda.
So this latest news is interesting, but it doesn’t really support or refute either Trump’s or Obama’s talking points.
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 10:28 am
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:24 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
put out by Trump's own Dept of Energy
and yet another of Trumps own departments put out a report on global warning, which most don't believe, and are now ignoring
And the French are rioting over similar bullshite, there
So, per the norm, youre gloating over bullshite. That's a very smelly place to keep finding yourself, doncha think?
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:25 am to The Pirate King
quote:
when your tariff narrative goes kaput
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:27 am to udtiger
quote:
considering it absolutely was CAUSED by "leaders in government" (note exactly when the "downturn" started" - something something bankrupt coal companies), I suspect something can be done to mitigate it.
holy shite then why aren't we
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:28 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Coal Update: not great
You really should change your thread title to "coal usage down in the US" Most steel mills had already changed over to natural gas as required by Obama.
This doesn't mean that coal mining is down at all. They are exporting the shite out of it.
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:28 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
You're a treasure to this board.
thanks bruh!
quote:
Maybe I should start a thread based on an asinine straw man argument
nah, you can keep crying about me right here in this thread!
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:30 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
OP seems to be excited about the reduction in coal use in the U.S.
what exactly gives you that idea? i'm bringing data to the board here that hasn't been discussed yet
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:37 am to MrLarson
quote:
This doesn't mean that coal mining is down at all. They are exporting the shite out of it.
More relevant than exports to your point, I'd expect, would be domestic production, at least to those workers:
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:44 am to 90proofprofessional
It came up in 17 and only half of 18 is reported.
We shall see.
We shall see.
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:45 am to 90proofprofessional
This is bullshite, everyone knows Trump hates the environment and wants everyone to die from black lung! :skyscreamer.gif:
In all seriousness, who fricking cares as long as it's the market making a decision based on their own internals and not some vast over-reaching bureaucracy that runs far more on political whim than it does actual science?
In all seriousness, who fricking cares as long as it's the market making a decision based on their own internals and not some vast over-reaching bureaucracy that runs far more on political whim than it does actual science?
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:49 am to Bard
quote:
In all seriousness, who fricking cares as long as it's the market making a decision based on their own internals and not some vast over-reaching bureaucracy that runs far more on political whim than it does actual science
some people might, and those people might have some expectations for results:
^coal mining employment (BLS)
Posted on 12/5/18 at 10:58 am to 90proofprofessional
I notice you didn’t mention that coal production in the U.S. is actually up.
Now tell me, what about this article did you find interesting enough to start a thread about, but also so disinterested in that you failed to give any personal insights?
People communicate by what they say AND by what they don’t say.
This is no time to be coy, in a thread that you started.
Now tell me, what about this article did you find interesting enough to start a thread about, but also so disinterested in that you failed to give any personal insights?
People communicate by what they say AND by what they don’t say.
This is no time to be coy, in a thread that you started.
Posted on 12/5/18 at 11:02 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
I notice you didn’t mention that coal production in the U.S. is actually up.
in 2017 it was up slightly from a significant low, experienced in 2016
why do you contend "i didn't mention" it? am i trying to obscure the fact that it's "back"? and how does that square with the retirements in progress, per the industry's own reports to the government?
quote:
This is no time to be coy, in a thread that you started.
are you predicting a turnaround that's meaningful, or are you suggesting that 2017 represented a meaningful turnaround? let's not be coy. i'm saying that the amount 2017 was up over 2016 does not constitute a meaningful turnaround, nor is there any evidence that it is a harbinger of one. in fact, as presented in the op, there's very good reason to expect the opposite
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 11:05 am
Posted on 12/5/18 at 11:04 am to Aubie Spr96
Hey Aubie, I answered your question about Med Techs in other thread finally. I was long winded so I didn't want you to miss it
Posted on 12/5/18 at 11:11 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
are you predicting a turnaround that's meaningful, or are you suggesting that 2017 represented a meaningful turnaround? let's not be coy. i'm saying that the amount 2017 was up over 2016 does not constitute a meaningful turnaround, nor is there any evidence that it is a harbinger of one. in fact, as presented in the op, there's very good reason to expect the opposite
And that’s political? How?
Commodities and the market will expand and contract.
Do you have a report on pork belly futures?
The only relevance to discuss this on a political forum is the politicalization of climate science.
So why don’t you expand the discussion to the relevant components, and not pick a single data point in time and post it as if it can stand alone as a political point of discussion.
Posted on 12/5/18 at 11:15 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
The only relevance to discuss this on a political forum is the politicalization of climate science.
huh?
quote:
why don’t you expand the discussion to the relevant components, and not pick a single data point in time and post it as if it can stand alone as a political point of discussion
when did i do this? why was it ok for you pick the production nadir and use that to assert that production is up? the eia chart i followed up with showed that so far in 2018, it is NOT up over 2017
and why don't you answer the question about a turnaround? my contention here is that these datapoints reflect "not great". why are you taking swipes at me about being coy without addressing that?
This post was edited on 12/5/18 at 11:17 am
Posted on 12/5/18 at 11:19 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
put out by Trump's own Dept of Energy
Do you really think 2 years is long enough to restart something that the previous administration took 8 years to destroy?
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