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re: Clarification about South African Land Distribution
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:40 pm to volod
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:40 pm to volod
quote:So . . . . as Apartheid was overthrown, Apartheid should return albeit with colors reversed??
During the Apartheid years, the white minority government forcibly removed and displaced many black people, took their land and forced them into small, semi-independent “homelands”, dotted all over the country:
quote:Julius Malema is a real jewel.
THE ECONOMIST
White flight from South Africa
Between staying and going
Violent crime and political turmoil are adding to South Africa’s brain drain
FIRST he thought it was a mouse, then a rat—and then the rat shot him in the face. That is how André Brink, one of South Africa's most famous novelists, described the recent killing of his nephew Adri, at home at 3am in the morning. The young man was left to die on the floor, in front of his wife and daughter, while his killers ransacked the house.
Such murders are common in South Africa. According to Mr Brink's account, published later in the Sunday Independent, 16 armed attacks had already taken place in a single month within a kilometre of the young couple's plot north of Pretoria, South Africa's capital. Soon afterwards—this is more unusual—the police arrested a gang of six. They recovered a laptop and two mobile phones. That was the haul for which Adri paid with his life.
...
Talk about “white flight” does not go down well. Officials are quick to claim that there is nothing white about it. A recent survey by FutureFact, a polling organisation, found that the desire to emigrate is pretty even across races: last year, 42% of Coloured (mixed-race) South Africans, 38% of blacks and 30% of those of Indian descent were thinking of leaving, compared with 41% of whites. This is a big leap from 2000, when the numbers were 12%, 18%, 26% and 22% respectively. But it is the whites, by and large, who have the money, skills, contacts and sometimes passports they need to start a life outside—and who leave the bigger skills and tax gap behind.
Another line loyalists take is that South Africa is no different from elsewhere: in a global economy, skills are portable. “One benefit of our new democracy is that we are well integrated in the community of nations, so now more opportunities are accessible to our people,” Kgalema Motlanthe, now South Africa's president, told The Economist. And to some extent it is true that the doctors, dentists, nurses, accountants and engineers who leave are being pulled by bigger salaries, not pushed by despair. But this is not the whole story. Nick Holland, chief executive of Gold Fields, a mining company, says that in his firm it is far commoner for skilled whites to leave than their black and Indian counterparts. “We mustn't stick our heads in the sand,” he says. “White flight is a reality.”
...
So South Africa certainly has its white boosters. Michael Katz, chairman of Edward Nathan Sonnenbergs, a law firm in Johannesburg, hands over a book with the title “Don't Panic!”, a collection of heartwarming reflections by disparate South Africans on why there is, even now, no better place than home.
Written Prior to Malema Feeling His Racist Oats
Violence against whites: Julius Malema tweets in agreement
Malema: 'We Have Not Called For The Killing Of White People... At Least For Now'
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:45 pm to volod
quote:
. And the only reason they failed to farm was do not having the experience or the credit to take out a loan
That's not the only reason they failed. I have a feeling that the government helped them initially. I wouldn't doubt that the government supplied seed for the first couple of years.
Why you think it's ok to seize the whites wealth and give it to blacks is beyond me. They gave the blacks a chance to be successful and they failed miserably. They'll fail again.
Just don't ask for help later.
You making excuses for violently removing whites from their land is sick.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:46 pm to NC_Tigah
I’m gonna need some white guilt interpretations of what Malema really meant and how it must be understood in the larger framework of colonialism and apartheid.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:47 pm to bencoleman
quote:
Land DistributionPosted on 8/24/18 at 7:35 pm to volod
?
Are you willing to walk away from everything that you own or have ever worked for?
Good point. And in certain religions this is asked of its followers. I would leave everything behind and start over if I moral conviction
Look. The farmers didn't do anything legally wrong. But their needs to be some compassion. These people have lived in government mandated squalor their whole lives.
As he stated, the land was sold to the farmers at an exorbitant rate. They should have included the equipment and livestock in cost analysis.
And even then, there should be a training program with the white farmers. That would have fixed the issue.
Most on here think blacks always go to Violence. But I'm a black man trying devise of multiple DIPLOMATIC solutions that could work.
The only restraint I have is that i don't know how much money the SA government has to spend. Since most of rich whites left, and they were the biggest tax base, its inconclusive how much they took with them.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:47 pm to volod
Apartheid was wrong
What's happening now to white farmers is wrong
This isn't that complicated
But rather than admit that, certain people want to justify whats happening now because of apartheid. Which makes sense considering these same individuals tell us its impossible to be racist towards a white person.
What's happening now to white farmers is wrong
This isn't that complicated
But rather than admit that, certain people want to justify whats happening now because of apartheid. Which makes sense considering these same individuals tell us its impossible to be racist towards a white person.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:48 pm to philter
quote:
As the moved inland from 1600s to 1800s they encountered tribes, and some restitution is likely due there - but the Boers that settled uninhabited land are the main farmers today. Since the land was uninhabited and they didn't steal it - who is owed restitution?
Most of the segregation took place (voluntarily or involuntarily) prior to the 1913 act.
So your question is appropriate.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:49 pm to volod
quote:
I would leave everything behind and start over if I moral conviction
In the hypothetical realm of stuff you’ll never have to do, you would do it? Very brave.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:51 pm to volod
quote:What? Are you saying the blacks failed at farming because they don't know how to farm? Well......DUH!!
the only reason they failed to farm was do not having the experience or the credit to take out a loan.
quote:What is the actual problem? Is it the white farmers are too successful at farming?
Not a single actual solution
quote:Why do you capitalize "violence"? And, "apartheid"? And it's "there" not "their."
I don't want Violence. And I had a shred of hope that people will understand that the situation is nuanced and their is no easy fix to something like Apartheid.
quote:And there it is.....
Just like there was no easy fix to a country whose was founded on the very concept of freedom yet struggled with slavery and Civil Rights.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:54 pm to bencoleman
quote:
bencoleman
Ok. I realize I'm not going to reach anyone.
So if you have the time. Even in the most simple terms. What would be the correct way the ANC can solve this issue.
Do you honestly just want to reinstall the Apartheid. It wasn't any less discriminatory. It was basically 1960s US only 100x worse for blacks.
Is that the world you want to live in. It's not the one I want to create.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:56 pm to volod
Sure, I believe your "white" farmer friend.
I'm sure his story makes it acceptable to kill white farmers in 2018...
I'm sure his story makes it acceptable to kill white farmers in 2018...
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:59 pm to volod
You have to create a country where the rule of law is more important than Marxist classes of people.
That’s where South Africa is failing and will fail.
If you don’t care about people being raped and killed, your country will fail.
That’s where South Africa is failing and will fail.
If you don’t care about people being raped and killed, your country will fail.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:59 pm to the808bass
quote:Right.
I’m gonna need some white guilt interpretations of what Malema really meant and how it must be understood in the larger framework of colonialism and apartheid.
The OP being cited is a SA Safari Operator with his own personal motivations. Some of what he says is 100% true. Some is dubious. Some is absolutely false. All is self-protective, which is sad.
This post was edited on 8/24/18 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 8/24/18 at 7:59 pm to Strannix
Yeah. There was a bunch of bullshite in that OP.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 8:05 pm to GenghisKhan
quote:
No, not really, equipment can be negotiated, or sold separate to the land.
Lessons????
Yeah, that's what I assumed.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 8:06 pm to volod
quote:
You do realize that none of this would have happened if Apartheid wasn't a thing.
Blacks will probably be worse off in a few years than they ever were under Apartheid. Whites came in, provided capital, provided infrastructure, provided first world comforts and education, provided opportunity. Why shouldnt they run things?
Posted on 8/24/18 at 8:10 pm to volod
Translation: everything is white peoples fault so this justifies confiscation without compensation.
If I buy land in the USA, I don’t expect the current farmer to come and train me unless it’s written in the contract.
The government came up with a bad solution. The bad solution didn’t work. The government then blamed their own poor planning on the whites for not being universally charitable.
If I buy land in the USA, I don’t expect the current farmer to come and train me unless it’s written in the contract.
The government came up with a bad solution. The bad solution didn’t work. The government then blamed their own poor planning on the whites for not being universally charitable.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 8:10 pm to volod
quote:
volod
Go look up Nazi Germany and how Hitler blamed the Jewish minority of hogging all of the country’s wealth.
You can see where this is headed.
Posted on 8/24/18 at 8:11 pm to volod
quote:
Do you honestly just want to reinstall the Apartheid.
Is forcibly removing farmers or restoring apartheid the only two options?
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