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re: Charlie masterfully lays out proof that we were founded as a Christian nation
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:50 pm to IvoryBillMatt
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:50 pm to IvoryBillMatt
His logic here is such a stretch especially calling the tenets of common law (assumption of innocence, due process, and jury of your peers) as products of the Bible. Jesus himself never received any of those three. The Inquisition in Spain and the Reformation in Europe taught us that Christians will not hesitate to suspend those tenets to ensure that their brand of Christianity survives.
Which is why the Founders explicitly did not found the nation on any specific religion. They did not want the government to impose tyranny via the mechanisms of the Church.
Which is why the Founders explicitly did not found the nation on any specific religion. They did not want the government to impose tyranny via the mechanisms of the Church.
1
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:51 pm to IvoryBillMatt
I think I answered your question before you asked it in my above post but when I was in middle school what kids grow up with now really hadn't taken hold again I had teachers that would open the day with a prayer in public school
one of my favourite stories
Also in my dads church we used to have American history stories as a part of the Sunday School curriculum
one of my favourite stories
Also in my dads church we used to have American history stories as a part of the Sunday School curriculum
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:52 pm to IvoryBillMatt
As Charlie laid out, our nation was founded within the context of Christianity, especially the overt Christianity of the colonies.
What he and others mix up, though, is that our nation being Christian culturally and as a conglomeration of Christian-professing states doesn't mean that our nation was founded as a Christian nation in any formal and official sense.
Not long after the Constitution was ratified and we became one nation, many of the states began shedding their own constitutions of the very requirements about Christian profession that Charlie mentioned, because they were following the pluralistic language of the 1st amendment. Many Christian groups actually protested the Constitution and the 1st amendment in particular for its lack of specificity regarding Christianity as the only religion of this country. In particular, some Presbyterians like the Covenantors that came over from Scotland years earlier protested that the wording would allow for an atheist President, which was culturally taboo at the time. The warnings were not heeded and the country remained pluralistic at its founding and ever since.
As a Christian, I would love to claim that our nation was founded as a Christian nation, but I don't think the facts bear that out. I think we were founded within the context of Christianity within our nation, but our founding has nothing about Christ as King and Lord in it, like other nations had at the time.
What he and others mix up, though, is that our nation being Christian culturally and as a conglomeration of Christian-professing states doesn't mean that our nation was founded as a Christian nation in any formal and official sense.
Not long after the Constitution was ratified and we became one nation, many of the states began shedding their own constitutions of the very requirements about Christian profession that Charlie mentioned, because they were following the pluralistic language of the 1st amendment. Many Christian groups actually protested the Constitution and the 1st amendment in particular for its lack of specificity regarding Christianity as the only religion of this country. In particular, some Presbyterians like the Covenantors that came over from Scotland years earlier protested that the wording would allow for an atheist President, which was culturally taboo at the time. The warnings were not heeded and the country remained pluralistic at its founding and ever since.
As a Christian, I would love to claim that our nation was founded as a Christian nation, but I don't think the facts bear that out. I think we were founded within the context of Christianity within our nation, but our founding has nothing about Christ as King and Lord in it, like other nations had at the time.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:53 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
Do you know what it means first of all it's not anywhere in the law as a founding of our nation that phrase was taken from a letter that Jefferson wrote to some Baptist in maybe Virginia I'll admit I don't remember the state could have been New Hampshire
Yep, I was aware
quote:
But the separation was government should not interfere with religion not that religious people should not be involved in government
I say this all the time when I say "You cannot have separation of church and state when the congregation is the constituency".
quote:
And I would have been in middle school in the mid-70s and we still did the Pledge of Allegiance
Religion had not been scraped out of schools yet I had teachers used to open the day with a prayer
I did too, but the movement was already there and gaining strength.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:54 pm to IvoryBillMatt
quote:As with the 3/5th's compromise? Is slavery a Christian principle?
we would be governed in accordance with Christian principles."
I'm not being coy here. I am simply pointing out that the beauty of the Constitution is that it guarantees freedom of faith. Insofar as the exhibition of faith, and the goodness of faith, sets a secular example, it can certainly influence law and society's expression of it. But it is foundational freedom, not foundational faith, setting that ability.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:56 pm to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
"But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation while it is practicing iniquity and extravagance and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candor, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world; because we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
--John Adams
To the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 1798
When you understand that the United States was almost entirely made up of Christians at the time of our founding you understand he was referring to Christianity, it shaping everything from our right to self government to all men being created equal, to our laws, and the inhabitants and culture of this country.
No one ever questioned it being anything other than a Cristian nation then, even the Muslims and the Barbary Pirates. They knew it, and took our seamen hostage and demanded tribute as a Christian nation.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:56 pm to UtahCajun
Not in the part of Texas I was raised in
I don't doubt your memories I was just asking answering the question and forgive me some of my responses and to the thread in general not necessarily meant to be directed at the post i'm replying to there's a lot of stuff flying in this thread
But it's a subject matter I was quite well versed in very familiar with and as a traditional conservative its something ive got a deep long foundation with
, I'd reject the Christian nationalists, although I'm sure many liberals would anchor me with that
But this board calls me a rino so names mean absolutely nothing especially when coming from people that don't know what the words mean
not you
I don't doubt your memories I was just asking answering the question and forgive me some of my responses and to the thread in general not necessarily meant to be directed at the post i'm replying to there's a lot of stuff flying in this thread
But it's a subject matter I was quite well versed in very familiar with and as a traditional conservative its something ive got a deep long foundation with
, I'd reject the Christian nationalists, although I'm sure many liberals would anchor me with that
But this board calls me a rino so names mean absolutely nothing especially when coming from people that don't know what the words mean
not you
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:57 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
As with the 3/5th's compromise? Is slavery a Christian principle?
Da frick? GTFOH
This invalidates anything else you have to say.
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:00 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
Jefferson wrote to some Baptist in maybe Virginia I'll admit I don't remember the state could have been New Hampshire
Fulfilling my annoying role as class room monitor (and having gone to UVa for PhD in history to study Jefferson), it was to Danbury, Connecticut Baptists.
Owl, I'm impressed that you learned thar at a young age. Did many other people your age learn that?
I grew up and live in the buckle of the Bible Belt...and I NEVER heard this mentioned until four years ago. It just goes to show you what a stranglehold Secularists have had over information and education for the past 100 years or so. Pete Hegseth's book, "Battle for the American Mind," does a great job explaining this.
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:00 pm to UtahCajun
quote:That
He talked about individual state Constitutions
was
under
the
Articles
of
Confederation.
----
In our Constitutional Republic, State Constitutions fall to the precedence of our foundational Supremacy Clause.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:01 pm to UtahCajun
quote:You are out of your depth.
Da frick? GTFOH
This invalidates anything else you have to say.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:03 pm to OWLFAN86
Well, I am agnostic. Was raised Catholic in South Louisiana though.
Was taught from a very early age the intent of our union. I knew that, while not specifically spelled out and with specific language added to ensure we would not become a theocracy, the founders did intend for this nation to be overwhelmingly led by Christian tenants like natural law.
Was taught from a very early age the intent of our union. I knew that, while not specifically spelled out and with specific language added to ensure we would not become a theocracy, the founders did intend for this nation to be overwhelmingly led by Christian tenants like natural law.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:03 pm to NC_Tigah
Well I'll answer a question if you ask it correctly
Certainly the Jews were familiar with slavery since they lived in slavery and Paul wrote of the relationship that slaves should have with their masters and that masters should have with their slaves as Christians
Now that form of slavery was more indentured servitude but one man's body and his efforts were the property of another even if it was until the debt was paid
Now the fact that America's Founding Fathers did make an attempt to make slavery illegal and 11 of the 13 colonies were willing to sign that in the founding documents but they were at war and compromises were made because the men at the time felt that was necessary
So that's my initial response to your question do you care to come back with other questions to further a dialoge
Certainly the Jews were familiar with slavery since they lived in slavery and Paul wrote of the relationship that slaves should have with their masters and that masters should have with their slaves as Christians
Now that form of slavery was more indentured servitude but one man's body and his efforts were the property of another even if it was until the debt was paid
Now the fact that America's Founding Fathers did make an attempt to make slavery illegal and 11 of the 13 colonies were willing to sign that in the founding documents but they were at war and compromises were made because the men at the time felt that was necessary
So that's my initial response to your question do you care to come back with other questions to further a dialoge
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:04 pm to IvoryBillMatt
As a country, we are very lucky to have been primarily founded by persecuted Protestants who were the heart and soul of the innovations that spawned the English Industrial Revolution starting in the early 1600's.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:05 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You are out of your depth.
Nah dawg, you are just slinging shite at walls even when that shite has nothing to do with the event being discussed.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:06 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
That
was
under
the
Articles
of
Confederation.
It
Was
Background
Giving
Precedence
Of
Our
Founding
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:06 pm to IvoryBillMatt
quote:Thank you as I mentioned I read voraciously in the 4th grade I was reading at a college graduate level so the types of books I was reading were perhaps more advanced but in my family it was something that was encouraged, if not demanded.
Owl, I'm impressed that you learned thar at a young age. Did many other people your age learn that?
Both grandfathers all my uncles except one, were ministers A number of them were theologians that got doctorate's degrees and in my family American history was understood to be key in the development of our faith because we believe that America was founded as a Christian nation and we did the research to back that up
And thanks for the assist on the Jeffersons letter to the Baptist I just remember it I did not remember which church
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:06 pm to IvoryBillMatt
I'd like to believe America was "founded" as a Christian Nation, but it clearly wasn't (ZERO mention of "Jesus" Christ" by the USCON or Bill of Rights.
The Founders were by and large Freemasons and Deists. Adams and others may have acknowledged Christian (or Biblical) ethics and morals, but a "Christian"nation would not display nothing but Egyptian, Roman, and Freemasonic iconography, symbolism and obelisks all over DC.
Charlie Kirk is either fudging the truth or being totally misled; Moreover, the evidence strongly suggests both Mr. AND Mrs. Kirk are ironically themselves Freemasons.
The Founders were by and large Freemasons and Deists. Adams and others may have acknowledged Christian (or Biblical) ethics and morals, but a "Christian"nation would not display nothing but Egyptian, Roman, and Freemasonic iconography, symbolism and obelisks all over DC.
Charlie Kirk is either fudging the truth or being totally misled; Moreover, the evidence strongly suggests both Mr. AND Mrs. Kirk are ironically themselves Freemasons.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:09 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Many Christian groups actually protested the Constitution and the 1st amendment in particular for its lack of specificity regarding Christianity as the only religion of this country.
In particular, some Presbyterians like the Covenantors that came over from Scotland years earlier protested that the wording would allow for an atheist President, which was culturally taboo at the time. The warnings were not heeded and the country remained pluralistic at its founding and ever since.
100%
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:09 pm to EphesianArmor
quote:But there was a specific mention of Jesus Christ as the
I'd like to believe America was "founded" as a Christian Nation, but it clearly wasn't (ZERO mention of "Jesus" Christ" by the USCON or Bill of Rights
quote:in the Declaration of Independence
Supreme Judge of The world
Just because people today don't understand the reference does not mean the Founding Fathers were not being very clear in their reference and the people of the world understood the reference in the time
Now that's when people have referred to the liberation of education is right. We're not actually teaching people the truth when we're keeping historical facts from them
orwell and huxley warned us of this
but these are the people that think the constitution is a living document
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 4:12 pm
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