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re: BP story on fraud DW Horizon spill settlement from 60 minutes
Posted on 5/7/14 at 9:52 am to USMCTiger03
Posted on 5/7/14 at 9:52 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
It's absolutely ludicrous to think they didn't know any and all of the downsides and risks.
I agree with you and I am NO fan of BP in the spill.
I guess what I meant to say is they will use this tactic to some point in their arguement. I know they think they would have to pay a business, like my flooring example, an amount of money....but near $300k for a biz like that is probably not what they figured on.
SO they will try to say something like they knew the hit they would take, but a nationwide slowdown/recession led them to have to pay much more money than the suit originally intended.
I know they probably knew better, but they will try to save whatever they can at this point..they realize no further damage can be done to their rep...the people who it affected worse have been paid, the rest now is probably the lesser affected claims.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 9:56 am to GeeOH
It's important to add that one issue that BP won on was requiring a matching of expenses to revenue, which in some cases not doing so may have led to much higher claims than otherwise. This is on the compensation aspect of it.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:02 am to OntarioTiger
I spoke with a guy at my kids soccer game about this. He said a lawyer contacted his business, ran the numbers and showed he was owed $5k in compensation. While his business is oilfield related they are not a BP vendor nor did they have any adverse consequences from the spill. They eventually turned down the money because, as he said, "one day that $5k would have bitten us in the arse".
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:06 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
It's a class settlement, the downside is some claims that may not have prevailed at full trial; the upside is closing the door on any and all such claims and avoiding full trial.
You still have to prove causation to be a part of a class in a class settlement.
II. “Fictitious” claims5 BP alleges not only that the Administrator's interpretation of the disputed terms inflates awards to legitimate BEL claimants, but also that the interpretation results in awards to BEL claimants who admittedly either have suffered no loss at all or have suffered losses that were not caused by the oil spill. Such claimants would have no colorable legal claim. See Richardson v. United States, 468 U.S. 317, 326 n. 6, 104 S.Ct. 3081, 82 L.Ed.2d 242 (1984) (defining a “colorable claim” as one with “some possible validity”). Absent a loss, a claimant has suffered no injury. Unless a claimant can colorably assert a loss, it lacks standing. See Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 560, 112 S.Ct. 2130, 119 L.Ed.2d 351 (1992) (noting that an injury is a required element of constitutional standing); Jobe v. ATR Mktg., Inc., 87 F.3d 751, 753 (5th Cir.1996) (“[T]he conventional tort elements in a negligence action are duty, breach of duty, proximate causation and injury.”). Similarly, if a claimant has suffered a loss, but it has no colorable claim that the loss was caused by the spill, it also lacks standing and cannot state a claim. It lacks standing because it cannot allege “a causal connection” between its loss and the spill. Lujan, 504 U.S. at 560, 112 S.Ct. 2130. Its injury is not “fairly traceable to the challenged action of the defendant;” rather, it is “the result of the independent action of some third party not before the court.” Id. (citation, quotation marks, and alteration omitted). Moreover, it cannot state a claim because it is unable to plead the causation element of a negligence cause of action. See Jobe, 87 F.3d at 753. Therefore, such non-colorable claims do not constitute Article III cases or controversies and are not founded on any substantive right.6
In re Deepwater Horizon, 732 F.3d 326, 340 (5th Cir. 2013)
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:08 am to Five0
Standing to sue in a court of law.
Not standing to make a claim under an administrative scheme agreed to by the parties.
Not standing to make a claim under an administrative scheme agreed to by the parties.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:13 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
Standing to sue in a court of law.
Not standing to make a claim under an administrative scheme agreed to by the parties.
I agree with you there. The problem is that the court has no legal authority under Article III to enforce the settlement. See the last part of citation from the case that is in bold, underlined, and in italics.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:23 am to Five0
The Supreme Court has cautioned that “Rule 23's requirements must be interpreted in keeping with Article III constraints, and with the Rules Enabling Act, which instructs that rules of procedure ‘shall not abridge, enlarge or modify any substantive right.’ ”7 Amchem Products, Inc. v. Windsor, 521 U.S. 591, 613, 117 S.Ct. 2231, 138 L.Ed.2d 689 (1997) (quoting 28 U.S.C. § 2072(b)); see also id. (quoting Fed.R.Civ.P. 82's mandate that “rules shall not be construed to extend ... the [subject-matter] jurisdiction of the United States district courts” (alterations in original)); Sullivan v. DB Investments, Inc., 667 F.3d 273, 343 (3d Cir.2011)
In re Deepwater Horizon, 732 F.3d 326, 341 (5th Cir. 2013)
For the laymen, Rules of Civil Procedure 23 deals with class actions. The second portion of the above citation in bold is why I argue that this is not an issue regarding the "settlement" in this case. The issue is the subject matter jurisdiction of the federal district court. As someone above stated, if the claims administrator had vetted the claims this would work. THAT IS A HUGE JOB, no doubt about it. This is a huge case with thousands of claimants. Rewarding the fraudulent claims is just as bad as BP not making the legitimate claimants whole. This is why I argue for BP in this matter. NOT for BP's sake, but for the sake of those that legitimately were damaged by BP.
In re Deepwater Horizon, 732 F.3d 326, 341 (5th Cir. 2013)
For the laymen, Rules of Civil Procedure 23 deals with class actions. The second portion of the above citation in bold is why I argue that this is not an issue regarding the "settlement" in this case. The issue is the subject matter jurisdiction of the federal district court. As someone above stated, if the claims administrator had vetted the claims this would work. THAT IS A HUGE JOB, no doubt about it. This is a huge case with thousands of claimants. Rewarding the fraudulent claims is just as bad as BP not making the legitimate claimants whole. This is why I argue for BP in this matter. NOT for BP's sake, but for the sake of those that legitimately were damaged by BP.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 10:28 am
Posted on 5/7/14 at 11:16 am to cave canem
Something tells me you do not know how a barrel of oil is sold.
Dear lsu13 Unfortunately I know way more than I sometimes wish about this. I do not however know of any gas pump that gives out oil by the barrel. BP would have a very hard time manipulating the price of crude but can raise the price at their pumps as they wish. By the way do you have any idea how many pumps BP owns in the US, or how many gallons they sale? In gallons it is around 15 billion a year or 50 million gallons a day. This is at company owned stores and does not include franchises. If you do not think BP is recouping this money at the pump so be it but please find out what you are talking about before spouting off. A quick google search is all it takes sometimes to not appear clueless and ignorant. You should also go back and look at the dates this agreement was signed and the market values then and 6months later. Nobody, and I mean nobody knew the extent the market was going to end up tanking at the time. Part of the time frame covered in this was when congress was trying to drive a final nail in the economy with the deficit showdown which caused far more economic damage than BP could ever hope to.I think BP should be held to the deal they made but damn they took it up the caboose on that deal.
Dear lsu13 Unfortunately I know way more than I sometimes wish about this. I do not however know of any gas pump that gives out oil by the barrel. BP would have a very hard time manipulating the price of crude but can raise the price at their pumps as they wish. By the way do you have any idea how many pumps BP owns in the US, or how many gallons they sale? In gallons it is around 15 billion a year or 50 million gallons a day. This is at company owned stores and does not include franchises. If you do not think BP is recouping this money at the pump so be it but please find out what you are talking about before spouting off. A quick google search is all it takes sometimes to not appear clueless and ignorant. You should also go back and look at the dates this agreement was signed and the market values then and 6months later. Nobody, and I mean nobody knew the extent the market was going to end up tanking at the time. Part of the time frame covered in this was when congress was trying to drive a final nail in the economy with the deficit showdown which caused far more economic damage than BP could ever hope to.I think BP should be held to the deal they made but damn they took it up the caboose on that deal.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 11:25 am to cave canem
quote:
BP should be held to the deal they made but damn they took it up the caboose on that deal.
Sums up my feelings perfectly.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 1:24 pm to cave canem
quote:
cave canem
Do you know how many gas pumps there are in the US? BP cannot raise gas prices as it pleases. Heck, raise them to $10 a gallon and get really rich why don't they? Because someone will just go across the street.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 1:25 pm to weisertiger
quote:
BP should be held to the deal they made but damn they took it up the caboose on that deal.
quote:
Sums up my feelings perfectly.
Same here. BP is not an unsophisticated poorly represented company. They knew exactly what they were agreeing to and most likely planned to back out of it once the dust settled. They knew they could argue this later so they agreed to it.
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