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Started By
Message
re: Bolton giddy over prospects of war with Iran????
Posted on 4/14/19 at 1:43 pm to I B Freeman
Posted on 4/14/19 at 1:43 pm to I B Freeman
What’s your point?
1
Posted on 4/14/19 at 1:45 pm to Lima Whiskey
Our intervention in the affairs of others has rarely resulted in any long term benefit to us.
This post was edited on 4/14/19 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 4/14/19 at 2:25 pm to I B Freeman
When the frick did the war drums start beating? I hadn’t heard much about Iran for a while then wake up and now it’s a possibility and the PT board is rooting for it. I member when we were all against Hillary for being a hawk and the consensus on here is we don’t need another Middle East adventure. What happened?
Posted on 4/14/19 at 2:28 pm to DavidTheGnome
Guess the trade war with China is winding down and the hardliners need to keep the s*** stirred.
Trumpkins here are for whatever Trump and Bolton are for. They are like blacks and democrats--No real independent thought on display among this group. Doesn't matter the issue their guy is right on it.
I have never been in 100% agreement with any politician on every issue.
Trumpkins here are for whatever Trump and Bolton are for. They are like blacks and democrats--No real independent thought on display among this group. Doesn't matter the issue their guy is right on it.
I have never been in 100% agreement with any politician on every issue.
This post was edited on 4/14/19 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 4/14/19 at 2:35 pm to The Funnie Five
quote:
And grow a new generation of terrorists
This is already occurring in many Mosques around the world. The internet has also been an effective tool (maybe moreso...if they aren't one and the same). Hell, you have the chic from Hoover that joined ISIS and now wants to come "home." Worrying about this is tantamount to a worrying about Alabama cheating worse after a loss.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 2:57 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Iran isn't a threat to us.
Islam is a threat to us.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:02 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
Islam is a threat to us.
Our problems are with Sunni Islam.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:02 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
They’ve secured the legal authority to attack Iranian forces.
It’s only a matter of time before they actually do.
Odds are that you are correct. That being said, the fact that someone like you, as aware and knowledgeable about the subject, feels this way...then more likely than not the Iranians feel the same way. If so, then their fear (seemingly legit) may be motivation for behind the scenes dialogue. At some point it becomes public, and then there are "historic" meetings.
Or
We are going to war.
I believe, based on precedent (including North Korea), in option 1.
Time will tell.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:05 pm to I B Freeman
Do you believe they are a terrorist group?
Simple question.
Simple question.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:07 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
Our intervention in the affairs of others has rarely resulted in any long term benefit to us.
Just curious were you in the threads when trump said he was withdrawing troops from Syria and Afghanistan? Oh btw John Bolton was his NSA when he made those comments.
You’re freaking out over no reason. I don’t see trump doing anything militarily in Iran or Venezuela. I see a bunch of saber rattling in Ven. The dismantling of the Iran Nuclear Deal and the sanctions on them will slowly squeeze them.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:13 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Our problems are with Sunni Islam.
Both Sunni and Shia are bound by the Quran, and the tenets that lie therein.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:23 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
Islam is a threat to us.
Not Shia Islam. Iran's goals are regional. All the major terrorist groups in the world are Sunni. In the National Countererrorism Center annual reports, there isn't even a category for Iranian or Shia terrorism. The last real credible terrorist operations Iran has conducted against Americans, when not in an active warzone, was the Khobar Towers bombing. Of course, you can consider what Iran did to support its Shia allies in Iraq terrorism, but the context for me is different in a meaningful way.
Iran is a threat because they are really good at asymmetrical warfare, and they do a great job of working with groups with whom they have a historical and religious association.
No one likes to say this, but Iran's geopolitical interests would remain the same whether the Shah or the Mullahs or a democratic government were in power. In fact, the security apparatus of the Iranian state was an example of one institution that was carried over into the new post-revolutionary state. The Shah also had a secret police.
I'm in favor of confronting Iran, but I'm not willing to use American forces to do so. If the Israelis and the Saudis are so desperate to confront Iran, then they should do it themselves, with their own soldiers.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:24 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
The stated goal and mission of Islam is to conquer and convert the world. Those who refuse will be put to death. We cannot peacefully co-exist.
Our final recourse will be to destroy them or be destroyed. It's us or them. Why put it off?
I love how Trump got major support for not being A NEOCON, but then when he hires the biggest NEOCONs ever, everyone applauds him for being the best NEOCON ever.
Clown world.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:25 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Not Shia Islam. Iran's goals are regional. All the major terrorist groups in the world are Sunni.
Mind blown rn.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:26 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Iran is a threat because they are really good at asymmetrical warfare, and they do a great job of working with groups with whom they have a historical and religious association.
No one likes to say this, but Iran's geopolitical interests would remain the same whether the Shah or the Mullahs or a democratic government were in power. In fact, the security apparatus of the Iranian state was an example of one institution that was carried over into the new post-revolutionary state. The Shah also had a secret police.
I'm in favor of confronting Iran, but I'm not willing to use American forces to do so. If the Israelis and the Saudis are so desperate to confront Iran, then they should do it themselves, with their own soldiers.
GOAT foreign policy post. NEOCONs BTFO
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:26 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
Both Sunni and Shia are bound by the Quran, and the tenets that lie therein.
Within Islam there is a concept called ijtihad that allows for scholars to answer questions that are beyond the scope of the Quran. And that includes revising previous assumptions.
Consertive Sunni Mullahs “closed the gates of ijtihad” in the 16th century, which explains a lot of their trouble adapting to the modern world.
Ijtihad still exists in Shia Islam, which is one the reasons Iran has industry and real universities. They have been able to reconcile their faith with the modern world. The other is cultural. They have a long pre Islamic history, whereas the Arabs had nothing, they were primitive tribesmen. That makes the Persians less reverential, and more practical.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:28 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
At some point it becomes public, and then there are "historic" meetings.
Bolton isn’t interested in talking, he wants to break Iran.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:29 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
Both Sunni and Shia are bound by the Quran, and the tenets that lie therein.
Well there is quite a bit of difference between the two. Namely, the Shia have developed a doctrine by which whole sections of the Qu'ran can be reinterpreted by individual Ayatollah's, which has allowed the Shia to be relatively more moderate than the Sunni's, who don't have the strict hierarchical structure of the Shia Jafari fiqh.
The Shia, historically, haven't been the conquerors that the Sunni have. Iran is only Shia because the Safavids wanted to unite all Persians against the Ottomans, among other reasons.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:32 pm to Magician2
quote:
Just curious were you in the threads when trump said he was withdrawing troops from Syria and Afghanistan? Oh btw John Bolton was his NSA when he made those comments.
Yeah, this isn't support for your argument. Bolton basically went public immediately after and said "yeah, no. We aren't doing that". At every single level of the CENTCOM command, Trump met resistance to this policy, and I'm quite certain that Bolton and Pompeo would rather resign than withdraw from Syria. Eventually, Trump cucked. Said we gotta stay, gotta protect Israel. I'm sure his donor class wasn't having it.
Trump was seemingly serious about it for many weeks, in fact, after much pretending that it wasn't going to happen, commanders in Syria were told to start doing inventory and get ready to leave. This was after the the entire chain of command collaborated to stymie the pullout order. It was a sick, disgusting situation, and Trump cucking on this was a massive massive blow against the good guys.
Posted on 4/14/19 at 3:32 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Within Islam there is a concept called ijtihad that allows for scholars to answer questions that are beyond the scope of the Quran. And that includes revising previous assumptions.
Exactly. This gives the Shia a lot of leeway. It's the main difference between the Usuli school and the Akhbari school, which rejects ijtihad. The Usuli school won, and nearly all Shia are Usuli Twelver Shia.
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