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Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:59 pm to omegaman66
How do we stop them?
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:07 am to Tunasntigers92
quote:
How do you explain the tribes in Afghanistan
I don't know what exactly you are referring to?
Are you referring to the Taliban, which is a Deobandi group that was formed in part by Pakistani ISI in order to direct Pashtun nationalism? Their presence is complicated by Pashtunwali, which is the ethic that guides the Pashtun tribes.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:09 am to crazy4lsu
Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Aimak, Turkmen, Baloch, Pashai, Nuristani, Gujjar
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:11 am to Tunasntigers92
Kinda fricked up how they have so many of these various sects/tribes, which all hate each other. Then on top of that they all hate the non-Islamic world. What a shitshow
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:25 am to Tunasntigers92
quote:
How do we stop them?
By not believing that they have values that western society has.
By recognizing that their religion does not worship the same God.
By recognizing that if you worship evil, you worship the devil and Islam is evil.
By recognizing they do not want to assimilate in western society. They do not come as immigrants but as invaders.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:29 am to Tunasntigers92
Humans are tribal by nature, and when you combine that fundamental trait with poverty, an unenlightened culture that doesn't value human life and a theology that can be used to defend tribal hatred and violence you get what we see.
The net result are people who have nothing to live for but the hope of a better life after death, and the way to achieve that is to kill those whom their belief system says to kill or support those who do so in your stead.
This isn't to say all Muslims are bad, that's clearly not the case. But Islamic theology DOES take advantage of human nature, poor nations and archaic cultures in a way other religions do not.
The net result are people who have nothing to live for but the hope of a better life after death, and the way to achieve that is to kill those whom their belief system says to kill or support those who do so in your stead.
This isn't to say all Muslims are bad, that's clearly not the case. But Islamic theology DOES take advantage of human nature, poor nations and archaic cultures in a way other religions do not.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:32 am to Tunasntigers92
quote:
How do we stop them?
You give them something more to live for than a bedtime story about what happens after they die.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:39 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
How would Islamic reform happen though?
It can only happen through societal enlightenment. Certain behaviors and beliefs must become untenable before a culture can move on.
Christianity "grew up" so to speak from the 16th through 18th centuries as European and subsequently American cultures reformed and changed dramatically. Our societies then said certain behaviors, even if the name of religion, were no longer acceptable.
The difficulty with Islam is it is inherently more violent and tribalistic than Christianity. Whereas one could argue burning Jews and heretics is against core Christian theology even if the time, it's difficult to argue that killing or enslaving non-Muslims who refuse to convert isn't acceptable at least in some instances based on their religious text.
An Islamic reform will need to be far more fundamental.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:48 am to Roger Klarvin
Reform??? Religion is not about reform. A religion is basically a set of laws and beliefs that are sent down from a higher power. Reform is nearly impossible because PEOPLE aren't allowed to change laws passed down from deities'.
Conversion to another religion or atheism is the only way to "reform" a muslim.
There are no crazy muslims that do not believe in hate. They have kids and the kids grow up in a religion of hate and some of them will follow the religious beliefs and not their parents. So as long as there is a religion based on the Quran there will always be problems to some degree.
Conversion to another religion or atheism is the only way to "reform" a muslim.
There are no crazy muslims that do not believe in hate. They have kids and the kids grow up in a religion of hate and some of them will follow the religious beliefs and not their parents. So as long as there is a religion based on the Quran there will always be problems to some degree.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:51 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Christianity "grew up" so to speak from the 16th through 18th centuries as European and subsequently American cultures reformed and changed dramatically.
You make it sound as if "growing up" was always assured. Not only that, that time period of "growing up" was incredibly bloody, and coincided a wide variety of movements, many of which have already been tried in the Arab world. Even then, the liberal and democratic victories that were felt in early modern Europe coincided with colonialism and subsequently the Islamic revival.
I don't think Europe and the West will have the patience to let the Westphalian system put in place after WWII work itself out, as many of these ethnic groups have yet to reach self-determination, which was a key step that Europe for the most part has reached, again through very bloody wars.
quote:
it's difficult to argue that killing or enslaving non-Muslims who refuse to convert isn't acceptable at least in some instances based on their religious text.
Which is why I said the key to reform in Islam relies in its method of jurisprudence, which is already used to justify a wide range of practices that don't have a distinct Qu'ranic basis.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 12:52 am
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:55 am to crazy4lsu
Thank you, omegamann66, for using the one word many in our country will do anything to avoid as it relates to jihadism: evil. That's what it is - pure, unadulterated evil. And unless we begin to wake up in America, we will go the way of western Europe and bury our children and grandchildren, who will be the victims of our "compassion"
Posted on 6/14/17 at 12:56 am to omegaman66
quote:
Reform??? Religion is not about reform
History is nothing if not a near constant reformation of world religious and theological beliefs. Every religion that has ever existed in any large scale has been reformed multiple times over and this process will continue until either religion or (much more likely) humanity ceases to exist.
quote:
A religion is basically a set of laws and beliefs that are sent down from a higher power. Reform is nearly impossible because PEOPLE aren't allowed to change laws passed down from deities'.
A religion is a man made system around which a given person or being is worshipped or exalted in some manner. Sure, individual religious people often see their beliefs as coming direct from a deity. That's not really what we're talking about here though. This is about collective societal attitudes towards religion and religious practice which change frequently.
quote:
Conversion to another religion or atheism is the only way to "reform" a muslim.
That's demonstrably untrue
quote:
There are no crazy muslims that do not believe in hate. They have kids and the kids grow up in a religion of hate and some of them will follow the religious beliefs and not their parents. So as long as there is a religion based on the Quran there will always be problems to some degree.
And yet hundreds of millions of Muslims actively reject violence and hate. Now yes, that leaves hundreds of millions more who directly or indirectly embrace it. But the point is, peaceful existence and Islam are not mutually exclusive. Certain brands under certain circumstances are, and unfortunately Islam DOES have a history and a text that makes violence tougher to reject than in other religions.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 12:57 am
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:02 am to slaughlin
quote:
Thank you, omegamann66, for using the one word many in our country will do anything to avoid as it relates to jihadism: evil. That's what it is - pure, unadulterated evil. And unless we begin to wake up in America, we will go the way of western Europe and bury our children and grandchildren, who will be the victims of our "compassion"
Once you start using words like "evil", you invoke emotions that make rational discussion impossible.
Evil has meant many things to many people in many cultures over the course of human existence.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:07 am to Tunasntigers92
A couple of thousand of years worth of insanity.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:49 am to omegaman66
In his book "The Making of Europe" - first printed in '56 - Christopher Dawson, prior to established academia entering into its pander-fest insisting on presenting a sanitized view of Islam, offers this verse from the Koran which indicates how deeply ingrained violence is within the belief system, and how it is considered a part of the "contract" that binds them to their Deity.
Considering he placed this revealing text in such an early book about a developing Europe, was he alerting future generations to something he recognized easily.
Verse 9:111
"Verily of the Faithful, has Allah bought their powers and their substance on condition of Paradise for them in return. On the path of Allah shall they fight and slay and be slain - a promise for this is pledged in the Taurat and the Injeel, and in the Koran, and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. Rejoice therefore in the contract ye have contracted for, this shall be the great bliss."
Considering he placed this revealing text in such an early book about a developing Europe, was he alerting future generations to something he recognized easily.
Verse 9:111
"Verily of the Faithful, has Allah bought their powers and their substance on condition of Paradise for them in return. On the path of Allah shall they fight and slay and be slain - a promise for this is pledged in the Taurat and the Injeel, and in the Koran, and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. Rejoice therefore in the contract ye have contracted for, this shall be the great bliss."
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 2:00 am
Posted on 6/14/17 at 2:22 am to Tunasntigers92
Radical Islamist is a redundancy. We need to stop legitimizing the religion with these dangerous euphemisms.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 5:58 am to Tunasntigers92
First off, many of these militants are trained from birth in this ideology and are never exposed to anything else. When you are raised in a vacuum with no opposing thoughts, it's easy to believe what you are being told.
Secondly, many of these peole are really poor and the sales pitch to join the operation appeals to them in a ecconomic way.
Lastly, the perceived spiritual element where they are promised 72 virgins after death, and the earthly prospects of captured sex slaves, etc. appeals to their carnal appetite.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Secondly, many of these peole are really poor and the sales pitch to join the operation appeals to them in a ecconomic way.
Lastly, the perceived spiritual element where they are promised 72 virgins after death, and the earthly prospects of captured sex slaves, etc. appeals to their carnal appetite.
It's a recipe for disaster.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 5:59 am
Posted on 6/14/17 at 6:04 am to Rekrul
you do realize this mythical god you preach of is the same god you probably worship?
Islam is literally an abrahmic religion and literally believes in all the prophets you do.
even Jesus was a prophet, just not a divine being.
you people are genuinely uneducated.
Islam is literally an abrahmic religion and literally believes in all the prophets you do.
even Jesus was a prophet, just not a divine being.
you people are genuinely uneducated.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 6:06 am to Tunasntigers92
Hateful violent teachings of Mohammed+ tiny-dick syndrome = radical Islam.
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