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re: At its core, what actually causes radical Islamist's ideals?

Posted on 6/13/17 at 10:56 pm to
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 10:56 pm to
quote:

Playing devils advocate here, the "good muslims" insist that the Quran preaches peace, so where is the disconnect?



The disconnect is in the jurisprudence. Islamic scholars take great pain dissecting the meaning of verses, the context of their revelation, and the what specific words mean. That's not including the hadith, nor the large body of judicial rulings that inform the application. The works can become large and voluminous.

The Salafi Islamists despise this for the most part. They also have a smaller body of judicial rulings.
Posted by ThatItalianGuy
Member since Jun 2017
4 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 10:57 pm to
It's being a loser
This post was edited on 6/13/17 at 10:58 pm
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 10:58 pm to
You obviously know more about the Quran than me, are you saying it was founded on violence?
Posted by tarzana
TX Hwy 6-- the Brazos River Valley
Member since Sep 2015
32002 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:16 pm to
But why do they hate us? What have we done to deserve such animosity and contempt?
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:17 pm to
Obama blames the crusades
Posted by MeatCleaverWeaver
Member since Oct 2013
22175 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:18 pm to

"The Quran has over 100 verses promoting violence and fighting"
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:18 pm to
Its more than that
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:19 pm to
Well the time period in which the Qu'ran was revealed was supremely violent, as the broader Byzantine-Sassanid War was the backdrop of the first revelations. It's no surprise that there are violent verses, nor should it be any surprise that Islamists seek to return to a world in which they were not dominated by the West. Reading Milestones by Qutb gives the clearest sense of the feeling of inferiority that perpetual colonialism, as well as rising Turkish nationalism, caused in the Arab world in particular. That inferiority drives part of the Islamist ideology, while another part is the desire to organize the state around Islamic principles, which is the defining characteristic of Islamists for me.

There are groups of Muslims who are becoming prominent that admit that Islam has violent tendencies and there needs to be reform. How would Islamic reform happen though? It certainly won't come from non-Muslims in the West. It will come from the workarounds in the tradition of Islamic jurisprudence. If there is any hope for real reform, that's where it lies.

The actual scholarly work by Islamic scholars is much more nuanced than one would think. There is an article I'm reading called Jihad and its Legitimacy in the Qu'ran, written by a disciple of Khomeini, and it is much more nuanced than I thought it would be. I'll try to find a PDF.
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:21 pm to
Is that a reason to indoctrinate
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:24 pm to
Well the Islamists pick and choose verses and rarely offer context, so those political desires seem reason enough to indoctrinate.
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:25 pm to
So are islamists in the wrong?
Posted by zachary77
Tuscaloosa
Member since Jan 2011
439 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:27 pm to
It's the greatest brainwashing job in world history. It is truly a impressive piece of work done on so many people. Behind it, in brainwashing cults, are the North Koreans and European/American statists.
This post was edited on 6/13/17 at 11:28 pm
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:29 pm to
Why are muslims so susceptible to brain washing?
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:31 pm to
quote:

So are islamists in the wrong?



The Salafi Islamists are breaking with tradition yes, as they feel they need to "refresh" Islam, and rescue it from what they refer to as "days of darkness." The Salafis don't have very much history in the tradition of jurisprudence, as it stands, as some of their views are directly anti-Shia, and therefore they are unlikely to adopt them (ideas like taqiyya).

The Shia Islamists are more interested in political organization, mainly because the strong history of persecution makes them mistrust the Sunni's at large.
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:34 pm to
How does that relate to world domination? Under sharia law.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:44 pm to
quote:

How does that relate to world domination? Under sharia law.



Are you asking what the Qu'ran says about converting everyone to Islam? It does have a strong proselytizing drive, yes, but the question of what the oft-repeated phrase "People of the Book" exactly entails means different things to different groups, and whether it is alright to convert Christians and Jews to Islam depends on who is doing the converting. A Salafi is more likely to want to convert in my estimation.

In practice, early Islamic conquests were just as interested in taxation and tributes as they were converting groups, which is why you see a strong tradition of decentralized ethnic and religious groups in the ME.

Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46771 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:45 pm to
Satan
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
28101 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:46 pm to
Ok, Im willing to admit i have utterly know fricking clue what youre saying. What is it Qurans goal?
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39798 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:54 pm to
I apologize if I can't give you a simple answer, but the Qu'ran's goal, in the book itself, seems to me to be an attempt at providing a framework for living for newly united Arab tribes. It's historical genesis seems to be combining various Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian, and pre-Islamic Arab stories into texts similar to the Old and New Testament. What it's goal is, though, will vary depending on who is reading the text and what their interpretation of it will be, hence why there is such wide variation in the pattern of practice of the religion.
Posted by omegaman66
greenwell springs
Member since Oct 2007
27102 posts
Posted on 6/13/17 at 11:57 pm to
quote:

Ok, Im willing to admit i have utterly know fricking clue what youre saying. What is it Qurans goal?


The goal of islam is to make the entire world Islamic.

If you are not muslim you are lower than dirt and they can rape, kill, enslave you.
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