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re: As a Catholic, I view the pope the same as I do the English monarch
Posted on 4/19/26 at 9:36 am to Mike da Tigah
Posted on 4/19/26 at 9:36 am to Mike da Tigah
I actually agree with part of what you’re saying, you’re just setting up a false either/or…. Yes, the Gospel is about what Jesus has already done. Catholics agree with that. You can’t earn grace, but Scripture never treats it like “just believe and nothing else matters.” Paul talks about faith working through love and even says to work out your salvation. That’s not earning it, that’s living it out.
The “hamster wheel” idea only works if Catholics think we save ourselves, and we don’t. Grace comes first. But once you receive it, you’re called to actually follow Christ, not just say you believe and stop there. Even Jesus says things like follow me, keep my commandments, remain in me. That’s not works replacing grace, that’s what real faith looks like. So yeah, it’s all about Jesus. Catholics agree. We just don’t think real faith is passive. He gave us an Ecclesia after all…
The “hamster wheel” idea only works if Catholics think we save ourselves, and we don’t. Grace comes first. But once you receive it, you’re called to actually follow Christ, not just say you believe and stop there. Even Jesus says things like follow me, keep my commandments, remain in me. That’s not works replacing grace, that’s what real faith looks like. So yeah, it’s all about Jesus. Catholics agree. We just don’t think real faith is passive. He gave us an Ecclesia after all…
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Posted on 4/19/26 at 9:40 am to LSUbest
No one is claiming a “monopoly on Christ.” The claim is that Christ founded one Church to preserve and teach His truth. That’s not arrogance, that’s just taking Him at His word and even the Catholic Church teaches that salvation isn’t limited to visible membership. It’s about Christ, not an “organization.”
As for “get behind me Satan,” that actually proves the opposite of your point. Peter can be wrong and still be the one Christ chose to lead. His authority comes from Christ, not his personal perfection. So the real question is: whether Jesus actually established a Church with authority, or left everyone to figure it out on their own…
As for “get behind me Satan,” that actually proves the opposite of your point. Peter can be wrong and still be the one Christ chose to lead. His authority comes from Christ, not his personal perfection. So the real question is: whether Jesus actually established a Church with authority, or left everyone to figure it out on their own…
Posted on 4/19/26 at 9:42 am to Canon951
quote:
Why wouldn't you go straight to the one that actually died for you? The curtain has been torn. You can go straight to him now.
Protestants must think Catholics never worship and pray to the trinity. Wrong! Most of our prayers are to God.
Listen, I'll explain it briefly. There are peopke throughout history that have led exemplary lives as Christians. The Catholic Church officially investigates this and some are given the title "Saint". The primary reason is to honor and give the faithful human examples of Christian lives in this fallen world.
Catholics even have "Patron Saints". There's likely a saint for every profession and vocation in the world. We can look up to them and ask them for intersessionary prayers particularly if you are in the profession of the declared patron saint. Pretty cool that I can read and study a humans (in no way divine) life that was doing similar work that I do and is a great role model. I even think St. Paul may be the patron saint of protestants.
Protestants completely miss the mark on this. It's just an issue that comes from the minds of heretics. Pray that their eyes be opened.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 9:53 am to METAL
Funny thing is that everything that is critical is repeated over and over. Foreshadowed, explained symbolicly, and clarified. But I can't find the Catholic church or their practices in there.
Except the things from the Hebrew church that are to be done away with and things we're told not to do.
Why doesn't the Bible clearly instruct us to participate in the activities of the Roman Catholic Church?
Except the things from the Hebrew church that are to be done away with and things we're told not to do.
Why doesn't the Bible clearly instruct us to participate in the activities of the Roman Catholic Church?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:09 am to Canon951
quote:
Champagne how are you justified before God? Serious question for you as I've seen you post on here quite often vehemently defending the catholic church. So how are you, Champagne, going to be allowed into heaven when you die?
The answers are all on Catholic Answers.
LINK
I would like to answer your question, and I will do so, but I expect you to attempt to refute my argument after I present it to you.
Eternal Security: all of my sins are forgiven, past present and future, because the Bible clearly says that my Faith assures me a place in Heaven. Christ's sacrifice on the Cross means that my past present and future sins, ALL of them, are already forgiven, and nothing can take that Gift from me.
I say to you : That is how I know I'm going to Heaven - the Doctrine of Eternal Security - straight out of the Bible - clearly says so.
Can you refute that?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:11 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
What’s truly under attack today is the Gospel that saves mankind.
quote:Well said, brother.
Religion wants you on the hamster wheel, but Jesus opened the hamster cage long ago. You don’t have to stay on the wheel. It’s not your job.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:12 am to LSUbest
Because the Bible isn’t written like a step-by-step manual for a future denomination. It never says “open your Bible and figure it out.” It points you to a Church. Jesus says build my Church, not write a book and leave it there. Paul calls the Church the “pillar and foundation of truth.” And the New Testament itself comes out of that Church.
You actually do see Catholic stuff all over it: bishops/elders, laying on of hands, baptism saving, the Eucharist as more than symbolic, confession, authority to bind and loose. It’s not labeled “Roman Catholic,” because that name comes later, but the structure and practices are there. It’s “Catholic” because it’s “universal”. The later denominations led to the labels you see today. We were always supposed to be one. I’ll never understand Protestant denominations. If you disagree with the Catholic faith then I can understand that, but the only other viable option there is Orthodoxy.
You actually do see Catholic stuff all over it: bishops/elders, laying on of hands, baptism saving, the Eucharist as more than symbolic, confession, authority to bind and loose. It’s not labeled “Roman Catholic,” because that name comes later, but the structure and practices are there. It’s “Catholic” because it’s “universal”. The later denominations led to the labels you see today. We were always supposed to be one. I’ll never understand Protestant denominations. If you disagree with the Catholic faith then I can understand that, but the only other viable option there is Orthodoxy.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:14 am to Champagne
quote:
Can you refute that?
Refute what? I agree with the doctrine of eternal security. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you believe. The catholic church doesn't teach this doctrine as I understand it so that is why I am confused. So your works, while should be done as they are profitable to men, play no part in your salvation?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:16 am to Canon951
Why do you believe in the Doctrine of Eternal Security?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:17 am to Champagne
Because Jesus said it. Now what about my question about your works?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:21 am to Canon951
quote:
Because Jesus said it.
Where did Jesus say that? Look, I answered your question. I told that I'm Saved by the Doctrine of Eternal Security.
Where did Jesus proclaim the Doctrine of Eternal Security?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:25 am to Champagne
Umm, it is all throughout the new testament but specifically Jesus mentions it all throughout the book of John. Here is the one everyone knows.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Now back to my works question?
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Now back to my works question?
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:28 am to Canon951
quote:
may have eternal life
May have?
quote:
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Should not?
Is this all there is to establish the Doctrine of Eternal Security which states that all of our Sins are already forgiven, past present and future, no matter what sins we commit in the future, our place in Heaven is guaranteed by Almighty God?
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 10:30 am
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:29 am to Champagne
Why do you believe in the doctrine of eternal security and also tell me about your works.
Are you going to answer this?
Are you going to answer this?
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 10:32 am
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:31 am to Canon951
quote:
Why do you believe in the doctrine of eternal security and also tell me about your works.
Is that all you have to prove the Doctrine of Eternal Security that you/we believe in?
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 10:33 am
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:33 am to Champagne
As I already told you it is all throughout scripture. Do I really need to list all of the verses? Of course not. You know they are there. So how do you define eternal security then?
Also, tell me about your works. 4th time I've asked.
Also, tell me about your works. 4th time I've asked.
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:39 am to Canon951
You say that the Doctrine of Eternal Security is all throughout Scripture and you cite two passages to prove the Doctrine.
I've read the passages and the words "may" and "should" stand out for me. Neither of these words, in the common usage of the English language, have a meaning with implies absolute certainty. So, I'm not sure why you used these cites to support your argument that Jesus guaranteed to us that all of our sins are already forgiven, past present and future, and that our place in Heaven is guaranteed by Almighty God, no matter what future sins we commit.
I don't think that the Bible passages you cite in any way prove the Doctrine of Eternal Security.
As for what Catholics believe, the website Catholic Answers explain it all better than I can.
Why are you unable to provide solid support for the Doctrine of Eternal Security? I would really benefit if you could provide this support, so I can present the argument in favor of it in future conversations with some religious people who reject this Doctrine of Eternal Security. Heaven only knows why they reject it, since, as you say, it is very clearly proved by all of Scripture.
So, what do I tell them to argue in support of the Doctrine of Eternal Security?
I've read the passages and the words "may" and "should" stand out for me. Neither of these words, in the common usage of the English language, have a meaning with implies absolute certainty. So, I'm not sure why you used these cites to support your argument that Jesus guaranteed to us that all of our sins are already forgiven, past present and future, and that our place in Heaven is guaranteed by Almighty God, no matter what future sins we commit.
I don't think that the Bible passages you cite in any way prove the Doctrine of Eternal Security.
As for what Catholics believe, the website Catholic Answers explain it all better than I can.
Why are you unable to provide solid support for the Doctrine of Eternal Security? I would really benefit if you could provide this support, so I can present the argument in favor of it in future conversations with some religious people who reject this Doctrine of Eternal Security. Heaven only knows why they reject it, since, as you say, it is very clearly proved by all of Scripture.
So, what do I tell them to argue in support of the Doctrine of Eternal Security?
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 10:43 am
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:47 am to Champagne
Yet you say you believe in it. I think you don't or you don't understand what it is. And you refuse to answer how your works play a role in this. Here you go since your want to play games and not have an honest discussion.
Direct teachings by Jesus about belief and eternal life
John 3:15
“That everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
John 3:36
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life…”
John 5:24
“Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.”
John 6:35
“Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.”
John 6:40
“Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:47
“Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.”
John 8:51
“Whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
John 11:25–26
“I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.”
From the Apostle Paul
Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 5:21
“…grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
1 Timothy 1:16
“…those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”
Titus 1:2
“in the hope of eternal life, which God… promised before the beginning of time.”
Galatians 6:8
“Whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”
From the Apostle John (in his letters)
1 John 2:25
“And this is what he promised us—eternal life.”
1 John 5:11–12
“God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life…”
1 John 5:13
“I write these things… so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
From Peter
1 Peter 1:3–4
“…given us new birth into a living hope… into an inheritance that can never perish…”
2 Peter 1:11
“…a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
From Jude
Jude 1:21
“…wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Direct teachings by Jesus about belief and eternal life
John 3:15
“That everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
John 3:36
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life…”
John 5:24
“Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.”
John 6:35
“Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.”
John 6:40
“Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:47
“Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.”
John 8:51
“Whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
John 11:25–26
“I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.”
From the Apostle Paul
Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 5:21
“…grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
1 Timothy 1:16
“…those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”
Titus 1:2
“in the hope of eternal life, which God… promised before the beginning of time.”
Galatians 6:8
“Whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”
From the Apostle John (in his letters)
1 John 2:25
“And this is what he promised us—eternal life.”
1 John 5:11–12
“God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life…”
1 John 5:13
“I write these things… so that you may know that you have eternal life.”
From Peter
1 Peter 1:3–4
“…given us new birth into a living hope… into an inheritance that can never perish…”
2 Peter 1:11
“…a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
From Jude
Jude 1:21
“…wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Posted on 4/19/26 at 10:54 am to Canon951
These are all great Bible quotes. When I have a conversation with all of the many Protestant churches that reject the Doctrine of Eternal Security, I will be sure to cite these passages to them.
Are there any Bible passages at all that cut against the Doctrine of Eternal Security? Methodists say that there are. What do you say to a Methodist who rejects the Doctrine of Eternal Security?
What do WE say in response to those Christians who reject the Doctrine of Eternal Security? Methodists and Lutherans reject the Doctrine of Eternal Security, which confuses me, because, as you say, this Doctrine is clearly proven by the Holy Bible itself.
Are there any Bible passages at all that cut against the Doctrine of Eternal Security? Methodists say that there are. What do you say to a Methodist who rejects the Doctrine of Eternal Security?
What do WE say in response to those Christians who reject the Doctrine of Eternal Security? Methodists and Lutherans reject the Doctrine of Eternal Security, which confuses me, because, as you say, this Doctrine is clearly proven by the Holy Bible itself.
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 10:58 am
Posted on 4/19/26 at 11:00 am to Champagne
So to be clear you lied when you said you are going to heaven because of eternal security? I think you are a mess man. You are all over the place. You don't know what you believe except whatever it is it is listed in the Catholic website you throw around constantly. All you believe is your mother church is always right and nothing else matters.
To your last question. Anyone, protestant or other, that denies eternal security is wrong and i will tell them to their face they are wrong. Jesus took care of it. It is finished. Eternal security is the gospel in a nutshell. And if anyone is wrong about this most important thing then they are probably wrong about other things as well.
What about your works Champagne? Are you going to tell me about those or not?
To your last question. Anyone, protestant or other, that denies eternal security is wrong and i will tell them to their face they are wrong. Jesus took care of it. It is finished. Eternal security is the gospel in a nutshell. And if anyone is wrong about this most important thing then they are probably wrong about other things as well.
What about your works Champagne? Are you going to tell me about those or not?
This post was edited on 4/19/26 at 11:02 am
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