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re: Americans spend more on health care and get less - report

Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:23 pm to
Posted by SundayFunday
Member since Sep 2011
9868 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:23 pm to
Yep, Shits really bad.


Not necessarily due to the though as a TON of what is wrong is due to chronic disease common in the US. Mainly, Obesity.


Obesity (and Smoking of course) are the primary cause of many of the problems with our healthcare system.

Expense, overuse, insurance premium, and even infant mortality rates are in part, if not mostly, negatively influenced by Obesity related problems.

This is all obvious to everyone, but its damned hard to fight as a population.
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8577 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:44 pm to
Americans do spend more on healthcare, but they do not necessarily "get less".

Outcomes =/= products and services received

And the way infant mortality rates are measured across the globe varies fairly dramatically, even in developed countries.
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8577 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

MSMHater



Interesting. The guy I studied under would've said Jha is directionally correct (things like greed in the system and fee-for-service aren't nearly the drivers of cost that some think they are), but that overutilization specifically in the U.S. is a massive cost-driver. One of the single biggest cost drivers, actually.

Demand is extremely high in the U.S. for a number of reasons (cultural expectations of levels of care, really shitty inputs into the system especially obesity, and more marginal dollars available than virtually every other country on the planet except a couple), but demand is the driver, and overutilization is a result.

The systems that are probably closest to ours in Europe - Netherlands and Switzerland - also are relatively expensive. They are also, like us, richer than just about everyone else as well.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135699 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

Americans spend more on health care and get less - report
We spend more --- Far more.

With Obamacare, skyrocketing deductibles, and obliteration of private entrepreneurial models, we get less than we did 6-7yrs ago for that money.

Even with that impact, US healthcare remains superior to other countries. But Obama&Co certainly managed to close the gap considerably in a negative direction.
quote:

The USA also has higher infant mortality rates.
Red Herring.
Reporting is nowhere near uniform, or acuity adjusted.

E.g., There is no location in the world in which Jimmy Kimmel's kid would have anything approaching the care or outcome he received here. Irony.
Posted by Hickok
Htown
Member since Jan 2013
2963 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 5:02 pm to
Americans or tax payers? some of us spend nothing
Posted by BigAppleBucky
New York
Member since Jan 2014
1807 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:03 pm to
The main point of this is that single payer systems do at least as good a job (probably better) of providing healthcare at significantly less cost.

BTW, the ACA reduced the acceleration of healthcare cost increases in the USA for a couple of years.
Posted by UofLSU
Member since Mar 2018
86 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:54 pm to
quote:

Thanks Barry



I know, right. He should have forced through true universal healthcare like most of the countries above us on the list have.
Posted by GooseSix
Member since Jun 2012
22005 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 10:57 pm to
quote:

The USA also has higher infant mortality rates.


Yeah, it is called abortion...
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8577 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:02 pm to
quote:

The main point of this is that single payer systems do at least as good a job (probably better) of providing healthcare at significantly less cost.


That's a very debatable proposition and not what your article actually says. Most healthcare economists worth their salt probably wouldn't agree with that statement, either.

Which is the better system: the one that raises average life expectancy from 75 to 78 or the one that raises average life expectancy from 81 to 82? It's not nearly as easy of a question to answer as you seem to think it is.
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 3/15/18 at 11:50 pm to
More than who?

Who has better healthcare?

The US is the gold standard for healthcare. This is because about 30% of what we spend goes into R&D.
If you want to have your gall bladder removed in Mumbai, be my guest.
Posted by TheTideMustRoll
Birmingham, AL
Member since Dec 2009
10268 posts
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:43 am to
You and the poster below you clearly have zero knowledge of how macroeconomics work.

We in the US basically have a choice between two outcomes: socialized medicine that is somewhat cheaper but poorer in quality, or capitalized medicine that is more expensive but higher in quality. The single-payer systems in other Western countries that idiots like you love to hold up as an example are able to choose a third option not available to us: socialized medicine that is somewhat cheaper but still higher in quality because they are piggybacking off the US system. This option is not available to us because our capitalized system is the one floating everyone else’s boat. If we were to move to a single-payer socialized medical system, then guess what? The Western world would at that point effectively be a closed socialist economy, at least when it came to medicine. You may not know this, but that model has already been tried by a quaint little country called the USSR. They found it to be... less than optimal.

Educate yourself, rather than just trying to come across as educated.
Posted by CubMajorTiger
Member since Feb 2018
22 posts
Posted on 3/16/18 at 8:47 am to
We measure infant mortality differently here in Murica. For example, in the rest of the world, a premature baby that dies isn't counted, while over here it does.

Also, if the quality of our health care is so bad, then why is the single best metric for predicting whether you live or die with a life threatening disease, whether or not you are being treated in the USA?

We have some of the best medical care in the word. Arguably the best. Period. You get what you pay for, and Its even more expensive thanks to Barack Osama.

Why doesn't OP move to Canada where you wait 9 months just to get an MRI and they have rationing and death panels?
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24147 posts
Posted on 3/16/18 at 9:14 am to
Nobody is going to deny that liberals are ruining our healthcare system
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