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re: Aborting Down syndrome babies
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:20 pm to Usafgiles
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:20 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
My position that it's not my decision to make for people? I can't imagine what it would be like to be in a position to have to make that decision. So I'm not going to sit here and say what they should do.
There has been a demand for abortive services for centuries. It is a medical decision made between parents and their doctor and no one else has any business weighing in on it any more than they do on sterilization or IVF or surrogacy.
We allow adults to make life decisions for other unresponsive, braindead, senile adults - anyone who lacks the faculties to make that decision for themselves. There's no reason a fetus should be any different.
0
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:20 pm to Usafgiles
quote:Because "that point" matters. The pro-lifers believe that life begins at a certain point and performing an abortion after that point is "killing a child", as you put it.
because if I don't support it after a certain point in the pregnancy (see my last post) why would I support killing a child?
If that point is in the womb, then you should care just as much what that mother does with it as you would after it is born, to be consistent with your position, at least.
So when is that point, and why do you consider that to be the point?
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:23 pm to FooManChoo
three pages ago I said "fetal viability", when it can likely survive on it's own. that's my stance personally. I have been very consistent. except for health, rape, incest.
In reality, I have no say. I'm not a female and therefor can't carry so it's not up to me. leave it between mother's and doctors.
In reality, I have no say. I'm not a female and therefor can't carry so it's not up to me. leave it between mother's and doctors.
This post was edited on 3/19/18 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:30 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
three pages ago I said "fetal viability", when it can likely survive on it's own
So we're not human until we can hunt and fish or hold a job?
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:31 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
or just survive outside of the womb, don't be stupid.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:33 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
In reality, I have no say. I'm not a female and therefor can't carry so it's not up to me. leave it between mother's and doctors.
I don't see this opinion around here often and much respect for you for having it.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:36 pm to Usafgiles
quote:Why does survival without assistance determine when the child is actually alive? Are other humans that require some fort of assistance to survive not actually alive?
three pages ago I said "fetal viability", when it can likely survive on it's own.
quote:Should a woman who was forced to give birth to a child that was conceived due to rape or incest not have the right to kill that child after it is born? If not, why shouldn't she?
except for health, rape, incest.
quote:Why not leave it up to parents if they want to kill their born children? Who are we to say differently and interfere with their family?
In reality, I have no say. I'm not a female and therefor can't carry so it's not up to me. leave it between mother's and doctors.
If the child is human and alive, then it shouldn't matter if it's in the body of another woman: it should be protected, just as a child in the home of a family that might want to kill it.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:37 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
three pages ago I said "fetal viability", when it can likely survive on it's own.
But a newborn can no more survive on its own than an unborn baby. By your logic it is acceptable for a mother to decide to kill anything upto really a school aged child.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:40 pm to Darth_Vader
you people are now arguing to concept of fetal viability. I'm growing tired of arguing in circles with you guys. You aren't going to change my mind, and I won't change yours. So I'll leave it at that.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:41 pm to Usafgiles
quote:We're trying to show you that your arguments for supporting abortion are irrational. As long as you can admit as much, the conversation with you can end.
you people are now arguing to concept of fetal viability. I'm growing tired of arguing in circles with you guys. You aren't going to change my mind, and I won't change yours. So I'll leave it at that.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:44 pm to FooManChoo
they aren't irrational at all. it's not my business, and nor is it yours.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 4:45 pm to Usafgiles
Take away absolute morality, and there is no real objection to murder of unhealthy babies. It's the logical outcome of a worldview that's only real conviction is the "greater good" of society.
The "greater good" is such a malleable idea that anyone with a pursausive mind can bend it to a whole host of causes... China uses it to eradicate dissent, environmentalists can use it to logically point to people as nothing more than "carbon polluters". Tyranny is the logical outcome of this worldview.
The "greater good" is such a malleable idea that anyone with a pursausive mind can bend it to a whole host of causes... China uses it to eradicate dissent, environmentalists can use it to logically point to people as nothing more than "carbon polluters". Tyranny is the logical outcome of this worldview.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 5:00 pm to Usafgiles
quote:If your reasoning is not consistent, it's irrational.
they aren't irrational at all.
quote:It's everyone's business to try to preserve life to the best of our ability. Sounds like the type of statement a Nazi would make if they disagreed with Jews being slaughtered but didn't want to interfere with what the government determined was acceptable.
it's not my business, and nor is it yours.
BTW, I'm not saying you're a Nazi or support the Holocaust. I'm only pointing out that the argument is void of moral substance.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 5:02 pm to Usafgiles
quote:
hey aren't irrational at all. it's not my business, and nor is it yours
Would you consider it none of anyone’s business if someone were wanting to kill you because they deemed your death would benefit their life?
Posted on 3/19/18 at 5:11 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
God forbid that ever happened, I’d not have to tell her to no because I am raising her to know that all human life is precious and we do not have the right to end it. Whether she keeps the child or putvit up for adoption would be up to her unless she was legally too young to decide for herself.
The emotional forces that will be working on you and her and your wife can make everything you thought you believed go right out the window. Ive seen it happen to a relative.Just keep in mind doing what daddy thinks is right is not always what is best psychologically for your daughter. Especially when you are talking about carrying to term the child of someone that raped you. Make sure her feelings are her own in that decision.
This post was edited on 3/19/18 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 3/19/18 at 6:11 pm to ThuperThumpin
I couldn't imagine the sheer emotional pain and anger that would exist in that scenario but if we are ruled by our emotions, we are nothing more than animals, like the evil person who performs the rape. Killing an innocent life will not make up for the pain and trauma of a rape and two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how painful the right course of action may be.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 6:34 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Killing an innocent life will not make up for the pain and trauma of a rape and two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how painful the right course of action may be.
Here the thing.. if your wife or daughter gets raped and and they decide that they dont want to take action to prevent a pregnancy or terminate then that is their decision . But I think it absolutely evil to suggest that any lawmaker should demand that a woman carry the child of a rapist to term. That could destroy a familyand make the trauma of rape even worse. Taking into account your wife or daughters emotions after they have been raped does not makes us animals.
This post was edited on 3/19/18 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 3/19/18 at 7:35 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:If a father or husband likewise goes and kills the rapist in revenge, that's his decision. It's also morally wrong to get revenge like that though you can empathize with his decision.
Here the thing.. if your wife or daughter gets raped and and they decide that they dont want to take action to prevent a pregnancy or terminate then that is their decision.
I can understand why a wife or daughter would want to get an abortion but I believe it is morally wrong to take a life in reaction to an emotionally (and physically) traumatic situation.
quote:And I think it's absolutely evil to punish the innocent life (in human terms) for actions of another. Two wrongs don't make a right.
But I think it absolutely evil to suggest that any lawmaker should demand that a woman carry the child of a rapist to term.
quote:Emotional trauma doesn't justify taking the life of another human being. It's a terrible situation all around but sometimes life is like that.
That could destroy a familyand make the trauma of rape even worse.
quote:Getting an abortion is not simply taking emotions into account. It's performing an evil act in response to another evil act for the purpose of soothing emotional distress.
Taking into account your wife or daughters emotions after they have been raped does not makes us animals.
Posted on 3/19/18 at 8:42 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
And I think it's absolutely evil to punish the innocent life (in human terms) for actions of another. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Well buddy I guess we just disagree. Abortion on demand is not something I favor but I would never force my wife or daughters to carry or make them feel guilty for terminating a pregnancy that was the result of a rape.
This post was edited on 3/19/18 at 8:44 pm
Posted on 3/19/18 at 9:01 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I struggle with this topic.
A huge number of downs kids have a wonderful quality of life. Aborting then because they MIGHT have a poor life is akin to turning in your guns because they might be stolen and used in a shooting...or killing yourselve because you might get cancer.
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