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re: Aannnnnndddd... the full Pentagon goes Anti-Southern
Posted on 7/7/20 at 9:03 am to DesScorp
Posted on 7/7/20 at 9:03 am to DesScorp
quote:
The British Military is full of them. It's "The British Army" instead of the Royal Army (as opposed to the RAF and Royal Navy), to honor Cromwell's New Model Army that defeated King Charles royalist forces, even though the crown returned and abolished the Republic. Cromwell, a freakin' Regicide, still has statues in his honor in the UK as a unification gesture. The whole tradition in England has been that if you fought honorably in the sight of God for your love of England, that you deserved honor. This goes back a long way, past the War of the Roses. The Brits named a bomber (the Lancaster) for the losing house in that civil war.
Superb
0
Posted on 7/7/20 at 9:39 am to DesScorp
quote:
The British Military is full of them. It's "The British Army" instead of the Royal Army (as opposed to the RAF and Royal Navy), to honor Cromwell's New Model Army that defeated King Charles royalist forces, even though the crown returned and abolished the Republic. Cromwell, a freakin' Regicide, still has statues in his honor in the UK as a unification gesture. The whole tradition in England has been that if you fought honorably in the sight of God for your love of England, that you deserved honor. This goes back a long way, past the War of the Roses. The Brits named a bomber (the Lancaster) for the losing house in that civil war.
1. When King Charles II become king he dug up Cromwell’s dead body and had his dead body executed, hung in chains and the. Had his head hung outside Westminster hall for roughly 20 years.
2. Most of those statues of Cromwell were erected 200-250 years later.
3. There are Royal Units in the British Military.
4. Remember Cromwell won the English Civil war. After his death they Parliament invited Charles II back under a lot of conditions. But the people who overthrew him were mostly still there outside the few actual regicides. Fairfax actually helped reestablish the monarchy and he was more or less the guy along with Cromwell. He just didn’t have the political apserations post war.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 9:45 am to SammyTiger
none of these refute DesScorp's points whatsoever.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 9:49 am to TigerCoon
quote:
none of these refute DesScorp's points whatsoever.
I mean It refuted every point.
The restored king did not respect Cromwell because he fought bravely. He desecrated his corpse.
And the British army isn’t called British because of the New Model Army, but rather because only certain units have the Honor of being Royal.
Also comparing the British Civil war to the American Civil War isn’t really accurate l. It wasn’t regional, it was royals vs parliamentarians. And if you study it, King Charles was essentially spent the entire war making every wrong decision. The royalist lost and later the parliamentarians asked them to come back on the grounds that they would not punish everyone.
This post was edited on 7/7/20 at 10:22 am
Posted on 7/7/20 at 10:48 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I mean It refuted every point.
DesScorp was responding to a request for examples where "battle flags" of a defeated army were venerated. He went beyond battle flags, but the point is the same.
quote:
The restored king did not respect Cromwell because he fought bravely. He desecrated his corpse.
Of course Charles didn't venerate him. However, Cromwell's statue exists TODAY outside the fricking House of Commons and throughout England and Ireland, and are under no threat to be removed. Was he a traitor? How is his story taught to British schoolchildren?
quote:
And the British army isn’t called British because of the New Model Army, but rather because only certain units have the Honor of being Royal.
This one was a stretch, but there are regiments in the current British army whose lineage goes directly to NMA, like Coldstream Guard and Reds and Blues. Why weren't they renamed if they served a traitor?
quote:
Also comparing the British Civil war to the American Civil War isn’t really accurate
Not a great comparison, because Cromwell was by definition a traitor. There is strong argument that the South's leaders were not. They didn't attempt to overthrow the government. They wanted peaceful secession, settlement of their portion of the national debt, to pay for federal lands in the South, etc. Other than the "perpetual" language in the Articles of Confederation, there's no definitive language in the founding documents that said secession was even illegal. In fact, the strongest language was in the Declaration of Independence "..free and independent States...". It wasn't decided by the Supreme Court until 1869, and the Chief Justice was a former member of Lincoln's cabinet. Winners make the laws. I am not trying to launch into that debate-- just show that it is debatable.
So I agree with you there-- the comparison isn't great. Cromwell was an actual traitor.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 10:52 am to SouthernHog
quote:
Are you a Southerner first or an American first?
I'm an American, the problem is our government isn't.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 10:57 am to SammyTiger
quote:
And in between the led an armed rebellion against the US Government that almost tore the nation in half.
With some of them going on to proudly serve their country in the Spanish-American War at the turn of the century.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 11:10 am to RollTide1987
Under the American flag.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 11:34 am to TigerCoon
I think You maybe have to ask yourself how the British view the war.
It was the King vs parliament
Two things the English still have.
You could equally argue the king betrayed the country by failing to uphold his duties to the people.
And that’s kinda how the Parliamentarians viewed it. They didn’t really start out trying to kill the King.
Also the Irish absolutely hate him for what he did in Ireland.
It was the King vs parliament
Two things the English still have.
You could equally argue the king betrayed the country by failing to uphold his duties to the people.
And that’s kinda how the Parliamentarians viewed it. They didn’t really start out trying to kill the King.
Also the Irish absolutely hate him for what he did in Ireland.
This post was edited on 7/7/20 at 11:48 am
Posted on 7/7/20 at 12:40 pm to SammyTiger
No arguments. A person could argue either side. So, let's not remove or clean up the history. It is important.
This post was edited on 7/7/20 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 7/7/20 at 12:49 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
I don't get the knee-jerk patriotism of Southerners on this board. This country hates you. It steals your tax dollars to give to corrupt governments around the world. It sends your kids (disproportionately I might add) to die in a 3rd world hellhole so the political class can make another billion or so. And yet, despite all of this, you are regarded as scum by many of your fellow countrymen. You are stereotyped and lampooned by the media and political establishment. And today, you are the root of all evil for half of this country's population. I myself share no cultural or historical similarities with people outside of Dixie, nor do I care to.
Based and Redpilled
I am sick of being blamed for the problems of lesser people and this corrupt federal government that whores itself out to foreigners who hate me.
Posted on 7/7/20 at 1:21 pm to DesScorp
I always thought that if things ever got really bad in the US and there was out of control rioting, violence in the streets, and wide open acts of treason and sedition galore, we could count on our great military and its traditions to rise up and set things right for the American people. This pathetic collection of spineless Pentagon brass, however, has educated me to the new reality. They are cowardly and corrupt. They want only to serve their political commissar masters and couldn’t care less about the domestic well being of America and its people. We are on our own, folks.
This post was edited on 7/7/20 at 1:25 pm
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