re: A story of what suicidal empathy gets you

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Again, you don't know what "baseless" means. You think that the only basis for truth is your own sense perception,

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Look in the mirror, Bill. And think about what you’re typing. My basis for truth is objective reality determined by the scientific method. It is your “Truth” that is based on baseless assertions, emotion, and fallacious and circular arguments.

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as if you could make sense of anything--including your senses--in a world without God creating and upholding all things by the word of His power.

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There you go again - baseless assertions.

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I agree that just because I believe the Scriptures are divine doesn't mean they are. My belief in them doesn't make them true. They are true regardless of whether I believe them.

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Another baseless assertion… based solely on your beliefs. You can’t demonstrate any of it to be true. You can’t presuppose the Bible is the “Truth” and circularly assert that we know it is the “Truth” because it comes from the Bible. It’s sad that you claim that I am the illogical one. Pathetic, really.

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What I believe is not baseless

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It is. You can’t take the first step in showing any of your beliefs are objectively true. You simply assert truthfulness from a collection of ancient stories and contradictory propaganda. It’s no different than a Greek asserting that Achilles was dipped in the river Styx by his heels because a story says so.

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as if you have witnessed all things all at once to know for sure that is true

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Bill, I don’t have to witness something to show something is true. I don’t have to witness a therapod dinosaur population group evolving over thousands of lifetimes and millions of years into the bird species we have today. I have genetics, morphology, paleontology, geology, among other sciences that have demonstrated positively without a shadow of a doubt that birds evolved from therapod dinosaurs. None of you apologists seem to grasp that just because something isn’t witnessed doesn’t mean evidence can’t demonstrate it really happened.

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If your "reality" is true, then there is no point to anything, even believing "truth". All your worldview should lead to is Nihilism and apathy

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Everything after the bolded part is moot. It’s not if. It is. The rest of your statement is your emotional conjecture.

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You don't actually believe all morality is subjective.

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Wrong.

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If you did, you wouldn't judge the rapist and the murder. You wouldn't judge the child molester.

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Well since there isn’t an objective standard which everyone in humanity can agree on, and since your deity doesn’t exist (but even if he did, your Bible doesn’t contain any objective standard, as in XYZ is always right and ABC is always wrong without contradictions), the only thing left is subjectivity.

In fact, the deities of your Bible allowed for killing of innocent babies (including Israelites), taking slaves to have as property forever, rape, and more atrocities, and you don’t like any of it and you personally wouldn’t keep slaves or rape anyone (I hope not) so you don’t follow the Bible but follow your own subjective standards.

Morality being subjective doesn’t stop me or anyone else for judging. Within subjective reality, there are social norms that most people agree with and adhere to. We judge based on those social norms, but the basis of such is that an action is morally good if it promotes happiness and wellbeing and/or minimizes unnecessary suffering. Now the only thing left is to subjectively decide how much happiness it takes to override suffering and what things promote wellbeing.

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And no, I don't believe that God does anything evil.

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It’s because you are allowing your dogma to override the logical part of your brain and make you stupid.

The first high priest, Aaron, threw the gold into the fire and out of it popped out the golden calf. Some Midrashes state that it was Yahweh that miraculously formed the calf. Sure Aaron threw the gold into the fire, “and out came this calf.” So Yahweh made the calf, and then the Israelites used the calf as an idol of Yahweh in their worship of Yahweh, and they had a feast in honor of Yahweh, stating that this calf represented the deity that had just rescued them from Egyptian slavery. So what did Yahweh do when Moses returned? Yahweh had them slaughter each other and when they slaughtered enough of each other, he then sent a “very great plague” to kill even more of the Israelites. Now ask yourself…

Did the act of Yahweh baiting the Israelites into “improper worship” of himself, and then making them kill each other, and then personally killing a shitload more of them… did that promote wellbeing? Did those actions minimize unnecessary suffering? No and no. Then those actions were EVIL. Fortunate for us is that that bloodthirsty deity doesn’t really exist and none of that shite ever really happened. And don’t say he’s not bloodthirsty, because he is… demanding blood sacrifices all the time… killing his own innocent son… it’s sick.

Stop and think just for once. Quit being a lying piece of shite and a troll.

You know damn good and well that “the universe and matter exists, therefore only the deity that I believe created it all could have created it all, therefore he did create it all” is a logical fallacy and is just plain idiotic.

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Her father is a piece of garbage. What a sad, pathetic, weak excuse of a man.

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Sadly a lot of Communist Liberals in America like this today.
Convincing adolescents to cut off genitalia, etc.

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Look in the mirror, Bill. And think about what you’re typing. My basis for truth is objective reality determined by the scientific method.

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You think empiricism is a sufficient epistemological methodology?

The scientific method cannot answer the most important questions in life. I suggest you delve more into philosophy. That will also help you with your argumentation, as it could help you identify some basic logical fallacies and (hopefully) keep you from using them, as well.

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It is your “Truth” that is based on baseless assertions, emotion, and fallacious and circular arguments.

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The truth from God's revelation is not baseless, as I've said, and it isn't based on emotions. There are hard truths that God has revealed that don't always sit easy with me, but I recognize that that is a "me" problem, not a problem with the truth.

Also, when you talk about first principles, they have to become circular, because there isn't an infinite regress of authorities to appeal to. For instance, if I asked you to prove to me that laws of logic exist without using laws of logic, you couldn't do it, because laws of logic are woven into existence due to reflecting the mind of God. There are vicious circles that are fallacious, and others that are not fallacious, but necessary.

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There you go again - baseless assertions.

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Not baseless at all. This gets into philosophy and logic again. If you'd like me to explain and provide the basis, I can, but you've already shown a difficulty with logic, so I'm not sure it would do any good. Just let me know.

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Another baseless assertion… based solely on your beliefs. You can’t demonstrate any of it to be true. You can’t presuppose the Bible is the “Truth” and circularly assert that we know it is the “Truth” because it comes from the Bible. It’s sad that you claim that I am the illogical one. Pathetic, really.

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No, it's not based solely on my beliefs, but again, you don't show much interest in logical argumentation. You only care about the scientific method, after all

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It is. You can’t take the first step in showing any of your beliefs are objectively true.

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It's clear you don't understand the logic behind it. And because of the character limit and your own limitations of understanding, I haven't discussed these things with you. If you want to learn a little bit about what I'm talking about on your own, I suggest you look up the transcendental argument of God's existence.

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Bill, I don’t have to witness something to show something is true. I don’t have to witness a therapod dinosaur population group evolving over thousands of lifetimes and millions of years into the bird species we have today.

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Again, this goes into assumptions, presuppositions, and interpretation of evidence. You are thoroughly convinced by what you've read and the interpretations of the evidence presented to you that evolution is the cause of all life on this planet. That makes the most sense to you because you've already rejected even the possibility of miraculous intervention by God in the natural world. You are a materialist, so you believe all that exists is matter in motion, however you don't actually act that way consistently. You believe in immaterial things like laws of logic, though I wonder if you'd say they are just human constructions that don't actually exist in "reality".

Anyway, you've already excluded any possible explanation outside of natural processes working over time that resulted in what we observe today, so all the evidence you see is interpreted with those lenses on. You may not even realize that's what you're doing, but it is. It's why you look at someone like me and think I'm just rejecting the evidence instead of interpreting it differently based on a different set of presuppositions.

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Everything after the bolded part is moot. It’s not if. It is. The rest of your statement is your emotional conjecture.

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There was nothing emotion about my statement. It is a logical reality that if what you believe is true, there is no point to anything. Perhaps you should respond to that, instead of dismissing it as emotion (which is a false statement). Again, I know you struggle with logical implications, but give it a try.

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Wrong.

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Then act like it. Next time you hear about rape, torture, or murder, just shrug your shoulders and say, "well that was right to that rapist/torturer/murderer, so I can't judge it". And when people say things you don't think are true, just ignore it, because it doesn't matter, because nothing matters.

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Well since there isn’t an objective standard which everyone in humanity can agree on, and since your deity doesn’t exist (but even if he did, your Bible doesn’t contain any objective standard, as in XYZ is always right and ABC is always wrong without contradictions), the only thing left is subjectivity.

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And yet you don't act this way. You still get frustrated when people are "wrong", and you still have negative reactions to "evils" perpetuated in society. Just let it go and be consistent for once.

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In fact, the deities of your Bible allowed for killing of innocent babies (including Israelites), taking slaves to have as property forever, rape, and more atrocities, and you don’t like any of it and you personally wouldn’t keep slaves or rape anyone (I hope not) so you don’t follow the Bible but follow your own subjective standards.

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We've been over this many times. You're wrong and I've explained why before.

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Morality being subjective doesn’t stop me or anyone else for judging. Within subjective reality, there are social norms that most people agree with and adhere to. We judge based on those social norms, but the basis of such is that an action is morally good if it promotes happiness and wellbeing and/or minimizes unnecessary suffering. Now the only thing left is to subjectively decide how much happiness it takes to override suffering and what things promote wellbeing.

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The standard you just provided (promotion of happiness and wellbeing) is a subjective and arbitrary standard to begin with, which is my point. Everything about morality is subjective if there is no objective moral law-giver. Because of that, there is no standard to use to judge actions as good or evil, and we're left to our own preferences. Even societal agreement is not an objective basis for morality, as it could very well be one person or a group of people deciding morality for everyone else. And at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter in your worldview, because Nihilism is the only consistent conclusion.

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It’s because you are allowing your dogma to override the logical part of your brain and make you stupid.

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Since you struggle with logic, I'll just ignore this statement as being spoken by someone not qualified to say it

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...it’s sick.

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I'm running out of characters so I won't quote the whole false narrative you provided. God didn't create the golden calf through a miracle and then bait the people into killing each other. Aaron was shirking responsibility for what he did, and God judged the people for their idolatry and rebellion, like He did several times in the Bible. You can't even read the Bible correctly.

Even so, when you say "it's sick", all that means in your worldview if that you don't personally like it. That's all it can mean, because it wouldn't be actually evil or immoral, because like you said, morality is subjective. This is what I mean when I say you don't actually believe it. You actually believe there are things that are immoral, even though your worldview can't account for it.

That dude in the center of the pic looks just like Sugar Ray Leonard.