1
- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Score Board
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- SEC Score Board
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:10 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:10 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
He said He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The ceremonial law (the sacrifices, etc.) were part of the law He said He came to fulfill.
How does He fulfill it if it's garbage? From my reading of the Scriptures (the historic reading within Christianity), Jesus fulfilled those laws by being the sacrifice they pointed to.
In your interpretation, God commanded sacrifices that didn't actually do anything (sacrifices aren't needed, only repentance) and don't point to anything. So why were they commanded?
He fulfills God laws. He breaks the laws of men constantly. By filling them he shows the path, which was confused by the pharisess/scribes via scripture, traditions and...rituals.
I never once said God commanded anything - you say that.
quote:
You do realize that Jesus accepted worship, right? He said He and the Father were one, and He accepted worship as God. Do you disagree?
Jesus taught people they were the authority. And saying someone accepted it is hardly saying they demanded it or expected it. They showed respect.
The father is much greater than Jesus. To say the father is in him - and he is, I can see the father, is not to claim the son is the father. Everyone with a soul is a son/daughter of God, because that's what your soul is. And that is why the kingdom of God is within. And that's why you are the authority, and that is why it is up to you to seek it.
And this is also what he tells the Pharisees in response if you keep reading.
quote:
Again, what do you think the word "fulfilled" means? Jesus said He didn't abolish it, but fulfilled it. What you are saying seems to be more of abolition rather than fulfillment, since you seem to think Jesus thought the sacrifices were garbage. Where do you get that?
It means to clarify. That is what the path is, a clarification on how to keep the commandments. An example to follow. If you take on an apprentice or trainee, you show them how to do the job by example. They will follow you and from your example they will learn.
In doing that, you also show the ways NOT to do it. The things that are incorrect. Instead of stoning the sinner, forgive them etc. And that is why Jesus and the Pharisees had discussions almost EXACTLY the same way we are. Where you quote scripture, claim I am of the devil and so forth to dare go against your view of the scripture.
I wouldn't say his sacrifices were garbage. If a man see's a child in the street about to get hit by a car, and that man runs out, pushes that kid out of the way and gets killed by the car, that man made a sacrifice. In fact, that man made the ultimate sacrifice. But it wasn't the sacrifice that saved the child and it's dumb to worship the sacrifice is what saved the kid rather than the actual actions the man took which resulted in his death of being that which saved them.
Talking about how great the man was while wearing a BMW symbol around your neck is a huge misunderstanding on the mans actions, their purpose and is somewhat insulting to the man at the same time.
quote:
I do repent. I repent of greed, lust, pride, unrighteous anger, idolatry, false worship, and other things of the heart as the Westminster Confession of Faith lays out in great detail from the Scriptures.
You are the one with the blind eye. You make Christ's death of no account because you think Jesus was just an example to follow, even though He didn't teach anything that you couldn't also get from the Old Testament (from your own perspective, at least).
I already addressed the sacrifice above.
Do you think Jesus got his understanding from scripture?
This post was edited on 10/13/26 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:12 pm to 3down10
quote:I already seek God. I do so by His Spirit, which resides within me, and through His Word, and especially through the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ. I'm hungry for His Word.
I can not change your heart to make you someone who seeks.
What I'm not seeking is your false report, received (allegedly) in private, and is contradicted by many other claims of visions. You expect me to believe you but have no shown any evidence that you were spoken to by God rather than a demon or just had a hallucination.
quote:I agree with that notion that only the Holy Spirit can give eyes to see and ears to hear, but unlike you, I the Bible teaches that the Spirit works through the preaching of the Word of God. God gave ministers to proclaim the good news, and we should listen to them, as the Spirit testifies in our own hearts to the truth of what they proclaim.
I can not give you understanding directly, not even Jesus could. That's the purpose of the holy spirit. I can only do what Jesus did and that is to speak in ways those with ears can hear. That is not you.
What you have said is that you're just a man and that no one should listen to you. You contradict the Scriptures, and even yourself, because you say not to listen to you, but then say you can speak in ways that those with ears can hear. Should we listen to you or not? You've said both things, so far. Which version of you should we listen to?
quote:Is that what you think Christians do? Is that what you thought Paul did? Paul, himself, that he was just a messenger of Christ, and that if he or even an angel from God said something contrary to the gospel that was already revealed, that he should be cursed from God.
To make myself your authority would be the same stupid shite Paul does. All glory goes to the father, not me. I would never in a million years try to replace the holy spirit or the father.
Your ignorance of Paul never ceases to amaze me.
Even so, you can teach people the truth and still give God the glory for it. It's what Christians seek to do all the time.
quote:No, you said it came from a private revelation. You've given no reason to believe you.
I have never once said my experience and understanding came from some random person on the internet, and I'm certainly not telling you that it should.
quote:I think you misunderstood Jesus. He was saying that He spoke in parables so that they would not understand. He specifically tells His disciples that it has been given to them (as a gift) to know what Jesus was teaching, while to others, it has not been given. Jesus was speaking in parables on purpose so that He wouldn't be as clearly understood by everyone.
In Matthew 13, the disciples asked Jesus why he only spoke in parables. He told them directly that he spoke that way because people look but don't see, and hear but don't understand.
quote:In Matthew 13, Jesus quoted Isaiah 6, who was commissioned by God to preach to the people, but God would harden their hearts and stop up their hearing so they would not hear and understand. It was actually God preventing the people from hearing.
Even Jesus recognized that as a human, he was limited to words. He couldn't magically force understanding into someone's brain. He could only expose the understanding a person already had. That's why he constantly said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
By contrast, Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 13 that it was a gift that they heard and understood; they had the knowledge because God allowed it.
This corresponds with Matthew 11, where Jesus actually thanked the Father for hiding the truth from some and revealed it only to those whom He gave Jesus.
In Mark 4, Jesus actually says that God doesn't reveal the truth to some so that they do not repent and receive forgiveness.
John 8 records Jesus saying that some do not understand because they are not of His flock, and likewise in John 10.
God is the one who opens eyes and ears and soften hearts to the truth, but He does so by His Spirit working through the preaching of the Word.
quote:I'm just calling you out on your contradictions. You've said in the past that no one should listen to you, and now you're saying you're just preaching the truth for the sake of others. Which should we do?
I cannot "save everyone" because I cannot force an closed mind to open. I can only speak to those who have ears. You are projecting some fantasy onto me because you think a text can magically fix people, but true wisdom recognizes human limitations.
quote:You won't stick with Jesus because you don't even know Jesus, nor do you accept everything written about Him.
You keep shouting Paul's dogmas at me, while I am content to simply listen to Jesus: "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." I'll stick with Jesus.
You reject the many passages where Jesus forgave sins or offered forgiveness for faith alone, not works. Over and over again, He healed people saying "your faith has made you well", or offered salvation and eternal by believing in Him alone.
Either He contradicted Himself, or you are misunderstanding the one passage that you keep quoting. Spoiler alert: you misunderstand.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:25 pm to 3down10
quote:God commanded the sacrifices in the Old Testament through Moses. Jesus upheld those laws.
He fulfills God laws. He breaks the laws of men constantly. By filling them he shows the path, which was confused by the pharisess/scribes via scripture, traditions and...rituals.
I never once said God commanded anything - you say that.
quote:From the beginning of His earthly life (Matt. 2:11) to the end of His ministry (Matt. 28:9, 17), He received worship.
Jesus taught people they were the authority. And saying someone accepted it is hardly saying they demanded it or expected it. They showed respect.
quote:You are a blind unitarian. You don't even understand the biblical claim that Christians believe. Jesus is God, but Jesus is NOT the Father. There are not three gods, but only one God. That one God is not sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, and sometimes the Spirit, but He is the Father, Son, and Spirit as three different persons.
The father is much greater than Jesus. To say the father is in him - and he is, I can see the father, is not to claim the son is the father. Everyone with a soul is a son/daughter of God, because that's what your soul is. And that is why the kingdom of God is within. And that's why you are the authority, and that is why it is up to you to seek it.
And this is also what he tells the Pharisees in response if you keep reading.
Jesus is co-equal with the Father, and only took on a subordinate role in His humanity, by veiling His glory with a human nature. He was almost stoned because the Jews understood that Jesus was making Himself equal with the Father (John 5). They again tried to stone Him in John 10 because they understood Him saying He and the Father are one as being equality of essence with God. In John 14, Jesus says that if you've seen Him, you've seen the Father, because they are both God. In Matthew 28, Jesus said He shares the one name of God, Father, Son, and Spirit.
I could go on, but you again show your ignorance of the Bible.
quote:
It means to clarify. That is what the path is, a clarification on how to keep the commandments. An example to follow. If you take on an apprentice or trainee, you show them how to do the job by example. They will follow you and from your example they will learn.
no it doesn't. Fulfillment is a terminus. It's the end of the journey that the road signs pointed to. The signs clarify the way, and the destination is the fulfillment of the journey.
You can't even get that one right.
quote:Not at all. They weren't quoting the Scripture but their own man-made traditions. You can't even quote the Scripture because you don't believe the Scriptures are relevant, or even that they exist as anything from God, except where they possibly confirm your gnostic heretical views.
In doing that, you also show the ways NOT to do it. The things that are incorrect. Instead of stoning the sinner, forgive them etc. And that is why Jesus and the Pharisees had discussions almost EXACTLY the same way we are. Where you quote scripture, claim I am of the devil and so forth to dare go against your view of the scripture.
Jesus used the Scriptures over and over again against the Pharisees, as I'm doing with you. You don't even accept the Scriptures.
quote:Your analogy is awful.
I wouldn't say his sacrifices were garbage. If a man see's a child in the street about to get hit by a car, and that man runs out, pushes that kid out of the way and gets killed by the car, that man made a sacrifice. In fact, that man made the ultimate sacrifice. But it wasn't the sacrifice that saved the child and it's dumb to worship the sacrifice is what saved the kid rather than the actual actions the man took which resulted in his death of being that which saved them.
Talking about how great the man was while wearing a BMW symbol around your neck is a huge misunderstanding on the mans actions, their purpose and is somewhat insulting to the man at the same time.
What the Bible teaches would be more like this: a person is sentenced to death by being run over by a car for the crimes they committed. Jesus willingly accepts the death sentence, Himself, in order for the other person to be forgiven and set free. Jesus then gets hit by the car, dies, and then raises Himself to life 3 days later.
You make Jesus' sacrifice to be nothing but incidental and just one of many sacrifices that anyone can make at any time. Jesus claimed to be God and was sent to die to forgive sins, not merely be a good example. No one can forgive sins like Jesus.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:38 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I already seek God. I do so by His Spirit, which resides within me, and through His Word, and especially through the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ. I'm hungry for His Word.
What I'm not seeking is your false report, received (allegedly) in private, and is contradicted by many other claims of visions. You expect me to believe you but have no shown any evidence that you were spoken to by God rather than a demon or just had a hallucination.
You start out by telling me you've accepted something is true and that is the only place for answers for you.
But that is instead your blinder. A restriction you have placed on yourself.
And your claims of me contradicting myself are just baseless accusations. There is a reason why you don't name specific things. You just say that because I don't accept the bible is the word of God or that the chosen books for some reason are all true or all false, as if it's impossible for a combination.
If you have specific things, I'll address them.
quote:
Is that what you think Christians do? Is that what you thought Paul did? Paul, himself, that he was just a messenger of Christ, and that if he or even an angel from God said something contrary to the gospel that was already revealed, that he should be cursed from God.
Your ignorance of Paul never ceases to amaze me.
Even so, you can teach people the truth and still give God the glory for it. It's what Christians seek to do all the time.
The entire book of acts is Paul trying to become an authority. He even tries to create territories for his authority. He is THE thing that you actually follow and the mask that gets put on Jesus to change what he actually said.
quote:
No, you said it came from a private revelation. You've given no reason to believe you.
You should NOT believe me. You should understand me. To believe me is to make me an authority. To understand me is to be your own authority. What good will come of you believing me? Nothing. The only thing good that can come for you is to for something to remove your blinders.
And your claims about Matthew 13 are ridiculous and backwards.
You're basically claiming God deliberately plugs peoples ears and blocks them from understanding so they don't repent. Jesus spoke in parables to unlock understanding, not to hide it.
quote:
You won't stick with Jesus because you don't even know Jesus, nor do you accept everything written about Him.
You reject the many passages where Jesus forgave sins or offered forgiveness for faith alone, not works. Over and over again, He healed people saying "your faith has made you well", or offered salvation and eternal by believing in Him alone.
Either He contradicted Himself, or you are misunderstanding the one passage that you keep quoting. Spoiler alert: you misunderstand.
Jesus it almost the only person I quote. Outside that it's the parts of the Torah that address understanding and wisdom almost always.
Faith isn't some lazy mental agreement. That's what you have. You just have to say "Jesus is lord" and believe he died for your sins. To say you have faith in Jesus while ignoring his direct command to keep the commandments is completely hollow.
If you have faith in a master builder, you do what the master build said - their blueprint. You don't sit around and worship the guy because of what he built and claim that's what builds it for you because you lack the ability.
I told you how people can be forgiven. It can happen instantly in some cases if the people lacked understanding and gain it. Those with ears heard. It does basically come instantly in that moment when you repent. So when someone accepts this is the way, they are repenting in the process.
Furthermore, you are admitting that the blood sacrifice was not required.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 3:57 pm to 3down10
quote:You're doing the same thing. You believe you've received a personal visitation by God, and that's the only way you can know the truth. You reject the Bible as God's Word, or the words of others who claim to have had other visions or revelations of God.
You start out by telling me you've accepted something is true and that is the only place for answers for you.
But that is instead your blinder. A restriction you have placed on yourself.
You are doing the same thing you're accusing me of doing.
quote:I've been addressing them. For one, you have said that no one should listen to you but to God. Then you turn around and say you are teaching the truth revealed by God. Which is it? Should we listen to you or not? Seems like a contradiction.
And your claims of me contradicting myself are just baseless accusations. There is a reason why you don't name specific things. You just say that because I don't accept the bible is the word of God or that the chosen books for some reason are all true or all false, as if it's impossible for a combination.
If you have specific things, I'll address them.
Also, you seem to now being saying that the Bible is not the word of God, but then quote from it when you think it is or supports the word of God as you understand it. You are cherry-picking from the Bible based on what you already believe to be true. You are no different than the Muslim or Jehovah's Witness that has a belief system handed to them from another source outside the Bible, and then use the Bible to show where their other source is true through selective passages pulled out from its context. If the Bible contains God's Word, then you need to provide the standard for how I or anyone else can know what is what, otherwise you're just asking us to trust you alone that you know what's right.
quote:That's factually not true. He's sharing the word of God that he received. It's not his own word, and he even was tested by the other apostles of Jesus and was approved. Peter even said that his words are scripture.
The entire book of acts is Paul trying to become an authority. He even tries to create territories for his authority. He is THE thing that you actually follow and the mask that gets put on Jesus to change what he actually said.
quote:This is absurd, and shows that you don't even know what basic language is.
You should NOT believe me. You should understand me. To believe me is to make me an authority. To understand me is to be your own authority. What good will come of you believing me? Nothing. The only thing good that can come for you is to for something to remove your blinders.
If I believe you, it means that I believe the words you are saying. It means I believe what you are saying is true. It doesn't mean I am seeing you as an authority, but that you are speaking the truth from a true authority.
It's incredible that you don't even get that right, because if no one believed you, then they wouldn't believe what you said. When you teach that we are supposed to obey the commandments of God (which commands, again?) for eternal life, then you are making a truth claim. Either someone believes you (and the claim) or not, and if no one believed you, it means they don't believe the claim you are making. Therefore, it would be pointless for you to tell anyone anything at all if you didn't expect--or even want--anyone to believe you.
Again I say, your beliefs are irrational.
quote:No, you're the one who has it backwards, as you do with everything in the Bible, it seems.
And your claims about Matthew 13 are ridiculous and backwards.
You're basically claiming God deliberately plugs peoples ears and blocks them from understanding so they don't repent. Jesus spoke in parables to unlock understanding, not to hide it.
Jesus specifically told His disciples it was given to them to understand the truth, but it wasn't given to others. He quoted Isaiah in order to support His statement, and that passage in Isaiah is God telling the prophet that He would harden the people's hearts until the right time. You aren't even reading the text.
quote:Yeah, because you keep quoting the same verse over and over again to the exclusion of so many other things Jesus said.
Jesus it almost the only person I quote.
I hope you've seen the pattern: I'm supporting my views (and contradicting yours) by quoting the gospel writings primarily. I'm not going to Paul to support what I'm saying, even though his writings are God-breathed. I'm showing you that you are wrong by the same books you seem to be OK with quoting.
quote:AKA, cherry-picking.
Outside that it's the parts of the Torah that address understanding and wisdom almost always.
quote:You are wrong yet again. I haven't said such a thing at all. I actually agree with you that saving faith is not mere mental agreement or assent, but it includes trust. Such trust will manifest itself with obedience. I keep saying that, but you keep forgetting or ignoring me.
Faith isn't some lazy mental agreement. That's what you have. You just have to say "Jesus is lord" and believe he died for your sins. To say you have faith in Jesus while ignoring his direct command to keep the commandments is completely hollow.
quote:I'm not going to worship just any builder, but if the master builder claims to be God as Jesus did, then I will worship Him and do what He commanded.
If you have faith in a master builder, you do what the master build said - their blueprint. You don't sit around and worship the guy because of what he built and claim that's what builds it for you because you lack the ability.
quote:Accepting that obedience is the way is not actually obeying, though. At least, it's not keeping all the commandments. It's merely assenting to the way, as you believe it to be.
I told you how people can be forgiven. It can happen instantly in some cases if the people lacked understanding and gain it. Those with ears heard. It does basically come instantly in that moment when you repent. So when someone accepts this is the way, they are repenting in the process.
This is another contradiction I see: you say that all commandments must be kept for forgiveness, but then say forgiveness can happen with merely acknowledging that the way is through obedience. It's a contradiction. Many people acknowledge that obedience to the law will save them, and yet they don't keep the law. Acceptance alone doesn't forgive, right? So which is it? Acceptance or obedience?
quote:No, I'm not. I'm saying that faith in Jesus as the Messiah--who takes away sins, as John the Baptist proclaimed--leads to forgiveness of sins. These people in the Bible believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah who would take away iniquity (sin-guilt), and that Messiah was prophesied in Isaiah 53. The people believed it and Jesus forgave their sins based on what He came to do. His death secured the forgiveness that He promised them.
Furthermore, you are admitting that the blood sacrifice was not required.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 4:09 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You are a blind unitarian. You don't even understand the biblical claim that Christians believe. Jesus is God, but Jesus is NOT the Father. There are not three gods, but only one God. That one God is not sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, and sometimes the Spirit, but He is the Father, Son, and Spirit as three different persons.
Jesus is co-equal with the Father, and only took on a subordinate role in His humanity, by veiling His glory with a human nature. He was almost stoned because the Jews understood that Jesus was making Himself equal with the Father (John 5). They again tried to stone Him in John 10 because they understood Him saying He and the Father are one as being equality of essence with God. In John 14, Jesus says that if you've seen Him, you've seen the Father, because they are both God. In Matthew 28, Jesus said He shares the one name of God, Father, Son, and Spirit.
I could go on, but you again show your ignorance of the Bible.
I've experienced these things for myself, and it's described in John 14. That is the reason I'm able to see the father within Jesus. I don't need Jesus to say it, I see it already.
I will explain the father and son relationship - it also applies to you and that is what Jesus tells them in your John 10 example when they try to stone them.
God is pure consciousness. Without God there is no experience, no reality, there is only data, there is no experience of data. The beginning and the end.
Your soul is also God. A limited version of the father. That limitation is in your flesh. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. Or another way is to see that consciousness is not a product of the universe/creation.
These limitations are done for the experience, and to grow from it. For example, a bird is only a bird when it's in that limitation. If you took your experience and then became a bird, you're not a bird, you're a man in a birds body.
Which modern computers this is easily demonstrated in a video game. Where you take your consciousness and you entire into another reality. A reality where the laws and restrictions of that universe dictate what actions you can take. Of course you are not actually those characters in that game the same way you wouldn't be a bird. In order to do that, you'd need to limit yourself down to only that which is known in that universe/creation.
And that is what you are a product of right now in this creation. That piece of God is within, but you only see the physical and know the physical. It's within all. You are the son, and the kingdom of God is within.
This is within all, and this is why doing bad things to other people is a sin against God. You are doing those things to God within them. If there is a soul, then this exists in them.
Where as you are blinded, Jesus had these connections unlocked. Going back to the video game, imagine if everyone else in the video game had no idea they were anything other than the character in the video game. But then 1 person had what you have know, knowledge and understanding that they weren't just that. That is what Jesus was. And what he describes in John 14 is that unlocking for others. I know it's true because I experienced it.
And the holy spirit has no label, it's just God. But I understand what is trying to be expressed here, because you can't actually see the full of God as your limitation would be destroyed completely.
But the father is much greater because the father is without limitation. The father is in me, that was the first thing I learned/understood. But the father is my greater than I am.
And that's why when they took up to stone Jesus, look at what he quoted to them Psalm 82:6.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
What you've done is just demonstrated to me that you do not remotely understand the father and son relationship or what you call the trinity. You instead make it into an idol where Jesus is God and have no understanding.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 6:08 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You're doing the same thing. You believe you've received a personal visitation by God, and that's the only way you can know the truth. You reject the Bible as God's Word, or the words of others who claim to have had other visions or revelations of God.
You are doing the same thing you're accusing me of doing.
My experience is defined in John 14, right down to the fact I am not Christian and didn't follow Jesus at all.
Jesus didn't write the bible. The scripture you quote didn't exist at the time. Paul didn't come in after Jesus talked with someone to say - well this is what he actually meant.
The fact Jesus knew that is one of the reasons I can see the father in him.
quote:
I've been addressing them. For one, you have said that no one should listen to you but to God. Then you turn around and say you are teaching the truth revealed by God. Which is it? Should we listen to you or not? Seems like a contradiction.
What a person needs is understanding and I can't give it to them. As such, I am not the teacher, only that which gives understanding is and that is God.
I am a human. I am limited to words. I can at best try to unlock existing understanding people may have if I am able to express things. Kind of like in parable form. If someone understands, it wasn't me that taught them. Parables and such are thought experiments, you have to carry them out.
At no point have I ever told you some dude on the internet gave me my understanding. Why should that become the source for you, rather than what was the source for me? To find my flesh, or even my words, to be the authority is just absurdly wrong.
If the kingdom of God is within, how can I show it to you out here? As I said previously, knowledge of the holy is understanding.
quote:
That's factually not true. He's sharing the word of God that he received. It's not his own word, and he even was tested by the other apostles of Jesus and was approved. Peter even said that his words are scripture.
Peter did not write it, and you are still demonstrating the need to be an authority. That's really all Saul ever wanted, from being a Pharisee to being Paul.
quote:
This is absurd, and shows that you don't even know what basic language is.
If I believe you, it means that I believe the words you are saying. It means I believe what you are saying is true. It doesn't mean I am seeing you as an authority, but that you are speaking the truth from a true authority.
It's incredible that you don't even get that right, because if no one believed you, then they wouldn't believe what you said. When you teach that we are supposed to obey the commandments of God (which commands, again?) for eternal life, then you are making a truth claim. Either someone believes you (and the claim) or not, and if no one believed you, it means they don't believe the claim you are making. Therefore, it would be pointless for you to tell anyone anything at all if you didn't expect--or even want--anyone to believe you.
Again I say, your beliefs are irrational.
I've explained this to you 100 times. There is a difference in believing and blindly accepting 1+1=2 and understanding math. One is useful and can be applied to your daily life so that you can benefit and follow it's understanding, the other is just the data/expression.
I don't want anyone to just believe me or accept what I say blindly like a 1+1=2, but I do hope they understand the math behind it. Because that is what is important.
Knowledge of the holy is understanding, not blind acceptance or belief of the expression.
quote:
Jesus specifically told His disciples it was given to them to understand the truth, but it wasn't given to others. He quoted Isaiah in order to support His statement, and that passage in Isaiah is God telling the prophet that He would harden the people's hearts until the right time. You aren't even reading the text.
What is actually being talked about is the result of humans being stubborn as a result of human pride.
If he was only going to give it to those few people, he not only wouldn't need to speak to anyone else, he wouldn't end telling people let those with ears hear.
quote:
You are wrong yet again. I haven't said such a thing at all. I actually agree with you that saving faith is not mere mental agreement or assent, but it includes trust. Such trust will manifest itself with obedience. I keep saying that, but you keep forgetting or ignoring me.
You claim those things are impossible, thus your desire for the sacrifice.
Which is to say I can keep doing the bad things, just claim it impossible for me to change, and then accept the free gift. You treat them as suggestions, not requirements.
Gosh, it sure would be nice if you didn't murder someone, but don't worry if you do, just believe in Jesus. No real internal change required, nothing but lazy mental agreements.
Now, if that person came to understand their errors and actually repented for them, then they would be forgiven for that error. Because then they wouldn't do it in the future. Actual internal change required.
quote:
No, I'm not. I'm saying that faith in Jesus as the Messiah--who takes away sins, as John the Baptist proclaimed--leads to forgiveness of sins. These people in the Bible believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah who would take away iniquity (sin-guilt), and that Messiah was prophesied in Isaiah 53. The people believed it and Jesus forgave their sins based on what He came to do. His death secured the forgiveness that He promised them.
Isaiah 53 is written in the past tense, not as a future prophecy.
Jesus never told people it was on credit. He forgave them instantly, he never said "You will be forgiven upon my death".
You're adding meaning to what was actually said just to support the Pauline doctrine of the blood sacrifice.
Posted on 10/13/26 at 7:31 pm to JDsJersey
The USA became great under Christianity.....and it will fail under others!
Traditional America First!
Traditional America First!
This post was edited on 10/13/26 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 10/14/26 at 3:48 pm to 3down10
quote:You don't see Jesus in the Father and the Father in Jesus, because you don't know what that means. You think it means that Jesus acts like the Father by obeying the commandments rather than having a unique relationship within the godhead. Jesus accepted worship. We shouldn't, because we are not God. It's why you can use a word like "idolatry" when talking about Jesus, because you know that we aren't to worship anyone but God and you don't believe Jesus is God.
I've experienced these things for myself, and it's described in John 14. That is the reason I'm able to see the father within Jesus. I don't need Jesus to say it, I see it already.
quote:God is not "pure consciousness". He's a pure spirit and being who is conscious. He is a triune being from whom and through whom all things have been created, both those with consciousness and those things without it.
God is pure consciousness. Without God there is no experience, no reality, there is only data, there is no experience of data. The beginning and the end.
quote:No, my soul is not also God. It's created. God is uncreated and He has created all that has been created, including you and me.
Your soul is also God. A limited version of the father. That limitation is in your flesh. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. Or another way is to see that consciousness is not a product of the universe/creation.
No, I am not a limited version of the Father. If I or my soul were God, then I would be the exact imprint of His nature, not a limited version of Him. It's why Jesus is said to be the exact imprint of God's nature, because He is God: He shares the one essence of divinity.
quote:People do not take on different natures. The Father doesn't have a human nature, either. Only the Son has taken on a human nature, but He retained His divine nature. He isn't merely God in a human body, but He has both a divine (God) nature and a human nature, both at the same time. He is fully God and fully man.
These limitations are done for the experience, and to grow from it. For example, a bird is only a bird when it's in that limitation. If you took your experience and then became a bird, you're not a bird, you're a man in a birds body.
Your gnosticism is showing. Many gnostics had this sort of view of the "divine spark" that existed in men. Your particular brand also seems to add in some sort of pantheism, where God is in or part of all things, or at least humans.
quote:See above.
Which modern computers this is easily demonstrated in a video game. Where you take your consciousness and you entire into another reality. A reality where the laws and restrictions of that universe dictate what actions you can take. Of course you are not actually those characters in that game the same way you wouldn't be a bird. In order to do that, you'd need to limit yourself down to only that which is known in that universe/creation.
Also, the video game is not me and does not have my consciousness. I am me, and my consciousness allows me to manipulate the video game. The video game is still the video game, and I am still me. There is no combination of the two here any more than if I pulled strings of a puppet, that the puppet would take on my consciousness.
quote:False. I am an adopted son of God, not sharing the same essence with Jesus (the Son) or God the Father.
And that is what you are a product of right now in this creation. That piece of God is within, but you only see the physical and know the physical. It's within all. You are the son, and the kingdom of God is within.
Jesus had to be without sin because He is God, and God cannot sin. If I am God, then God is unholy, because I sin.
quote:False. In Zechariah 12:1, we read that God formed man's spirit in him. It doesn't say God's spirit was placed in him, but that man has his own spirit.
This is within all, and this is why doing bad things to other people is a sin against God. You are doing those things to God within them. If there is a soul, then this exists in them.
The reason why it's bad to do do bad things to other people is because God made man in His image (Gen. 9:6), and therefore God owns all people. To disobey God and murder also stealing, as it seeks to destroy God's property without His permission.
quote:If I am God, how is it that I'm blinded? How can God be blind?
Where as you are blinded, Jesus had these connections unlocked.
quote:
Going back to the video game, imagine if everyone else in the video game had no idea they were anything other than the character in the video game. But then 1 person had what you have know, knowledge and understanding that they weren't just that. That is what Jesus was. And what he describes in John 14 is that unlocking for others. I know it's true because I experienced it.
no... Jesus said that He came to give His life as a ransom, not to merely be a prophet that explains how to leave the Matrix. Jesus died to accomplish the forgiveness of sins.
In John 14, Jesus didn't say to the disciples that if they have seen themselves or each other, that they have seen the Father. He said that if they have seen Him (Jesus), then they have seen the Father.
quote:God's Word declares that the Spirit is the Spirit, and is a person.
And the holy spirit has no label, it's just God. But I understand what is trying to be expressed here, because you can't actually see the full of God as your limitation would be destroyed completely.
quote:You do not have the Father because you do not have the Son. You don't have the Son because you reject Him as being God, and the Christ who takes away sins.
But the father is much greater because the father is without limitation. The father is in me, that was the first thing I learned/understood. But the father is my greater than I am.
quote:They tried to stone Him because Jesus made Himself to be God. Jesus didn't deny that He was God, but was making an argument from the lesser to the greater: if the ones that God has given the word of God could be called "gods", how can the one that God had sanctified and sent not also use that term?
And that's why when they took up to stone Jesus, look at what he quoted to them Psalm 82:6.
quote:I follow Jesus' own teaching. He didn't teach that each one of us has the divine spark. He taught that He and the Father are one by nature, and that we will be received by the Father for the sake of the Son if we believe in His life, death, and resurrection by faith. Jesus wasn't a gnostic.
What you've done is just demonstrated to me that you do not remotely understand the father and son relationship or what you call the trinity. You instead make it into an idol where Jesus is God and have no understanding.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 4:05 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If I am God, how is it that I'm blinded? How can God be blind?
You are not the father, you are the son.
The real power is choice.
Can God create a stone that he can not move? Yes if he chooses to. That law, that limitation would exist until the law and/or limitation is removed.
It's the choice to do something that is the power.
We do this to have experiences all the time. We can play a card game, and we enforce limitations on ourselves to make it happen. Nothing physically prevents us from turning the cards over, but we choose that limitation in order to have an experience.
Which is to say you chose to be blinded in order to have the experience. And at the end of the game the cards get revealed.
I'm not bothering with the rest of your post. It's the same kind of crap as usual. As I said previously, I already now the truth, so you can rationalize otherwise yourself.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 11:28 am to 3down10
quote:Your experience is that of a demon possessed man. You do not know the Father because you do not know the Son. You believe in some divine revelation like about a million other people who have ever lived claim to have had. You are not special. There is no way to even show that what you claim is true.
My experience is defined in John 14, right down to the fact I am not Christian and didn't follow Jesus at all.
quote:Jesus quoted and referenced Scripture all the time, and He taught His disciples about Himself from it. Go to Isaiah 53, for instance. He was stricken for our transgressions (He died to pay for our sins).
Jesus didn't write the bible. The scripture you quote didn't exist at the time. Paul didn't come in after Jesus talked with someone to say - well this is what he actually meant.
Paul didn't reinterpret Jesus, either. All Scripture is one single narrative, from Moses to the gospels to Paul. You are clearly ignorant of the Bible and are condemning Paul because you don't even know what he says. You think he contradicts Jesus when he and Jesus are saying the same things.
Jesus didn't write the Bible, Himself, but His Spirit inspired men to write it, and His teaching went from His disciples to us through the Scriptures.
quote:You can't see the Father in Him because you don't even know who the Father is. You only have a demonic experience. You are like the Buddhist, Hindu, or Mormon who claims to have a special feeling, confirmation, or sense of peace and presence of the divine.
The fact Jesus knew that is one of the reasons I can see the father in him.
quote:You don't know what a teacher does, apparently. A teacher conveys knowledge, not understanding. The student tries to understand it, and the teacher tries to help them understand it, but the teacher can't make the student understand it.
What a person needs is understanding and I can't give it to them. As such, I am not the teacher, only that which gives understanding is and that is God.
If you have special knowledge from God that is a matter of eternal consequence, you better be a teacher.
quote:You are a liar, because you deny Jesus is the Christ. You believe in some pantheistic gnosticism that only came to you but which you can't explain and claim that we shouldn't even listen to you. You are a walking contradiction.
I am a human. I am limited to words. I can at best try to unlock existing understanding people may have if I am able to express things. Kind of like in parable form. If someone understands, it wasn't me that taught them. Parables and such are thought experiments, you have to carry them out.
quote:You are telling me I have to have understanding, but can't give it to me, and you keep saying I have to be like a child, but don't tell me how to be like a child. You tell me that my understanding has to come from some divine experience, but don't tell me how to make that happen. I've sought God my whole life, and so has my family. No one has had an experience like yours and none of us were told to look for one like yours. Instead, God has given us His Scriptures, which are His written Word and revelation.
At no point have I ever told you some dude on the internet gave me my understanding. Why should that become the source for you, rather than what was the source for me? To find my flesh, or even my words, to be the authority is just absurdly wrong.
If the kingdom of God is within, how can I show it to you out here? As I said previously, knowledge of the holy is understanding.
I have the words of eternal life in Jesus Christ, the historical Messiah, who gave His life as a ransom to free me from my sin. You offer me the burden of attempting to be perfect, which no one can be in this life. It's why Jesus said His burden is light and easy. Moral perfection through obedience is hard, and it creates guilt and anguish. Jesus came to free us from that. We are free to obey because He's removed the burden of death that comes with disobedience. You bring death through the law.
quote:It's traditionally accepted that Peter did write it, and there are good reason to believe that he did. Luke, the human author of Acts, also notes that Paul was validated by the Apostles. Paul admits as much, himself.
Peter did not write it, and you are still demonstrating the need to be an authority. That's really all Saul ever wanted, from being a Pharisee to being Paul.
You are (willfully) ignorant of the Bible, which is why you keep saying what you do about Paul. If Paul contradicted Jesus, Christians would have a much harder time with it, but as it is, Paul's writings have been universally accepted as Scripture by the Church from the beginning, even when other writings like the book of Revelation were in question. That's precisely because they are not in conflict, but they support one another, because of the overarching doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture, which both Paul's writings and the gospels are. We aren't pitting Paul against Jesus because there is no need to. They are in harmony. Faith justifies and works (obedience to the moral law) prove that justification. If someone does not obey the law and repent when they don't, it's an evidence that they do not have a saving faith.
quote:A couple things here. First, Christians should blindly believe that which they believe comes from God. If it comes from Him, we are obligated to believe it.
I've explained this to you 100 times. There is a difference in believing and blindly accepting 1+1=2 and understanding math. One is useful and can be applied to your daily life so that you can benefit and follow it's understanding, the other is just the data/expression.
Second, Christians are not called to blindly believe anything from God, though we should be able to. We are called to "test the spirits", to be like the Bereans who tested even apostolic teaching against the known word of God, and to reject all "gospels" that contradict what came before (through testing). We are to study the Scriptures to understand them and be renewed daily in our minds. We are to be like our Father in Heaven, and God is not mindless, but is rational, so we must also act with rationality. God cannot lie or deny Himself, and therefore we must adhere to the laws of logic because they flow from the mind of God. Therefore, we aren't called to be mindless or blind in our acceptance, though we should have that sort of disposition (that's what Jesus was talking about when He said we needed to become like children, who trust even if they do not fully understand).
I'm not just absorbing data here. I'm seeking to understand God through His publicly-revealed word, and particularly as revealed through the person of Jesus Christ. You are asking me to abandon all that and believe the message you are sharing, which you claim you received personally and privately, though you cannot prove it. It's not understanding that I lack here, but lack of trust in you and your message. I have full trust in the message that was given for the past 2,000 years, though
Posted on 10/16/26 at 11:44 am to 3down10
Continued...
This is what Jesus was talking about with the new birth by the Spirit in John 3. No one can make themselves born into this life, and therefore no one can make themselves born again spiritually. Jesus would later say to the Pharisees that they do not believe because they are not His sheep. The reason for their unbelief is because Jesus didn't choose them.
Jesus didn't die to save every single person who would ever live, but He did die to save many people. Those who are His will hear His voice as the good shepherd, and they will be born again by His Spirit and believe unto salvation. This is done normally through the means of the preaching of the word, which is why Christians are called to be missionaries.
Change is required. A heart change is required. That should lead to a change of life. Those who are trusting in Jesus will love Him, and that means they will love what He loves and hate what He hates. Jesus hates sin, and so we will, too. We won't want to murder, but we should certainly repent and turn from it if we do.
You are all about works (obedience) and no faith. I'm saying that faith includes works.
Second, "they wouldn't do it in the future" is not necessarily true. No one is without sin, and sin is the breaking of the law. No one can keep the law perfectly because we still have a sinful nature that is at war within us. The hope is that God will sanctify His people so we will sin less and less egregiously, and we will repent of our sins continually, but that doesn't mean that we can obey perfectly and stop sinning.
Your works-based salvation requires perfect obedience without penalty for guilt in breaking the law.
Jesus applies this to Himself. In Luke 22:37, Jesus quotes Isaiah 53:12 about needing to fulfill Scripture. There are also allusions to Isaiah being fulfilled in Christ in several other passages, like Matthew 8:16-17 (Isaiah 53:4), John 12:37-38 (Isaiah 53:1), Acts 8:32-35: (Philip begins with Isaiah 53 and “told him the good news about Jesus.”), and even 1 Peter 2:21-25 draws extensively on Isaiah 53 for Christ’s substitutionary suffering.
quote:No, God meant what He said. Yes, people are self-deceived in their sin and harden their own hearts, but God also hardens hearts, as He did to Pharaoh, and He has a people chosen for Himself that He gives ears to hear and eyes to see.
What is actually being talked about is the result of humans being stubborn as a result of human pride.
If he was only going to give it to those few people, he not only wouldn't need to speak to anyone else, he wouldn't end telling people let those with ears hear.
This is what Jesus was talking about with the new birth by the Spirit in John 3. No one can make themselves born into this life, and therefore no one can make themselves born again spiritually. Jesus would later say to the Pharisees that they do not believe because they are not His sheep. The reason for their unbelief is because Jesus didn't choose them.
Jesus didn't die to save every single person who would ever live, but He did die to save many people. Those who are His will hear His voice as the good shepherd, and they will be born again by His Spirit and believe unto salvation. This is done normally through the means of the preaching of the word, which is why Christians are called to be missionaries.
quote:I claim what God claims: that with man these things are impossible, but with God, it's possible.
You claim those things are impossible, thus your desire for the sacrifice.
quote:Not at all. They are necessary requirements for salvation, but not because they merit salvation like you are teaching, but because they are necessary fruits of a saving faith. A true and saving faith will produce good works (obedience), even if not perfect, because we are still sinful.
Which is to say I can keep doing the bad things, just claim it impossible for me to change, and then accept the free gift. You treat them as suggestions, not requirements.
quote:This isn't what I believe or what the Bible teaches. You are misunderstanding, even though I've explained this to you several times now. I think you're purposefully distorting the truth at this point.
Gosh, it sure would be nice if you didn't murder someone, but don't worry if you do, just believe in Jesus. No real internal change required, nothing but lazy mental agreements.
Change is required. A heart change is required. That should lead to a change of life. Those who are trusting in Jesus will love Him, and that means they will love what He loves and hate what He hates. Jesus hates sin, and so we will, too. We won't want to murder, but we should certainly repent and turn from it if we do.
You are all about works (obedience) and no faith. I'm saying that faith includes works.
quote:First, the Bible does teach repentance for sin is necessary, because repentance is a fruit or evidence of a saving faith that justifies a person.
Now, if that person came to understand their errors and actually repented for them, then they would be forgiven for that error. Because then they wouldn't do it in the future. Actual internal change required.
Second, "they wouldn't do it in the future" is not necessarily true. No one is without sin, and sin is the breaking of the law. No one can keep the law perfectly because we still have a sinful nature that is at war within us. The hope is that God will sanctify His people so we will sin less and less egregiously, and we will repent of our sins continually, but that doesn't mean that we can obey perfectly and stop sinning.
Your works-based salvation requires perfect obedience without penalty for guilt in breaking the law.
quote:Read 52 and 53 again: God is speaking about the future.
Isaiah 53 is written in the past tense, not as a future prophecy.
Jesus applies this to Himself. In Luke 22:37, Jesus quotes Isaiah 53:12 about needing to fulfill Scripture. There are also allusions to Isaiah being fulfilled in Christ in several other passages, like Matthew 8:16-17 (Isaiah 53:4), John 12:37-38 (Isaiah 53:1), Acts 8:32-35: (Philip begins with Isaiah 53 and “told him the good news about Jesus.”), and even 1 Peter 2:21-25 draws extensively on Isaiah 53 for Christ’s substitutionary suffering.
quote:He didn't need to. Jesus' death was so certain that the benefits could be applied in advance. It's the reason why Jesus was sent, and He wasn't going to fail.
Jesus never told people it was on credit. He forgave them instantly, he never said "You will be forgiven upon my death".
quote:I'm not adding anything at all. It's supported by a holistic reading of the texts across the Bible. You are the one picking and choosing what you want to accept from the Bible.
You're adding meaning to what was actually said just to support the Pauline doctrine of the blood sacrifice.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 12:29 pm to 3down10
quote:I am an adopted son. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He occupies a unique space that no creature does.
You are not the father, you are the son.
quote:No, the real power is God and His sovereignty over all things.
The real power is choice.
quote:No, He can't. He's limited by His own will. He cannot lie. He cannot deny Himself. He cannot sin.
Can God create a stone that he can not move? Yes if he chooses to. That law, that limitation would exist until the law and/or limitation is removed.
quote:God is pure power and can do all His holy will. His choice to act according to His will does not maximize or limit His power.
It's the choice to do something that is the power.
quote:We are limited as creatures. God is only limited by His nature, which is pure and perfect and far superior to us, as His creatures.
We do this to have experiences all the time. We can play a card game, and we enforce limitations on ourselves to make it happen. Nothing physically prevents us from turning the cards over, but we choose that limitation in order to have an experience.
quote:I didn't choose to be blinded. I was blind in my sin until God opened my eyes to the truth by His Spirit, through the Scriptures.
Which is to say you chose to be blinded in order to have the experience. And at the end of the game the cards get revealed.
According to you, the truth was only shown to you when some being you claim is God warped your consciousness to be with it and then revealed things to you. That hasn't happened to me. That's not my choice.
quote:You aren't bothering with it because you can't say anything about it, apparently. You just have your gnostic personal experience over and against the Bible and millions of others' personal experiences that contradict yours.
I'm not bothering with the rest of your post. It's the same kind of crap as usual. As I said previously, I already now the truth, so you can rationalize otherwise yourself.
You are lost, and the only reason why I choose to engage with your error is to show others how wrong you are so that they aren't tempted to try to save themselves through the follow of works-righteousness.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 12:33 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Your experience is that of a demon possessed man. You do not know the Father because you do not know the Son. You believe in some divine revelation like about a million other people who have ever lived claim to have had. You are not special. There is no way to even show that what you claim is true.
The pharisees claimed the same about Jesus.
Because that's what you are.
I am not special, and that's the point. Everything I have is available to anyone who seeks it.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 1:30 pm to 3down10
quote:The prophets and apostles of God showed that they had God's power to substantiate that their message was from Him. Jesus performed miracles and cast out demons.
The pharisees claimed the same about Jesus.
Because that's what you are.
I am not special, and that's the point. Everything I have is available to anyone who seeks it.
Where are your miracles?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 1:47 pm to FooManChoo
I wish one of our talafico supporters would come in here and set y'all straight.
This post was edited on 10/16/26 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 10/16/26 at 2:05 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The prophets and apostles of God showed that they had God's power to substantiate that their message was from Him. Jesus performed miracles and cast out demons.
Where are your miracles?
Once again I am not claiming to be a prophet, your savior or being special in any way. In fact I keep tell you over and over that I am not those things, that there is only one true teacher and it's not me.
YOU are the one who keeps trying to throw those things on me then claim I'm supposed to dance for you in response. The Pharisees did the same thing to Jesus oddly enough.
Among many other labels and things like demon, heretic and all your other false accusations.
You only do that because I tell you that you are wrong.
All I did was seek the truth. Anyone can do that.
Maybe if you started reading the bible for understanding and wisdom instead of ways to build up an idol and a blood sacrifice you wouldn't think what I say is so odd.
What you are actually demonstrating here is that you are just looking for another authority to accept. Not a desire for truth, understanding and wisdom, just someone to accept. You want me to "prove" myself so that you can just accept what I say - and that's just not the point.
What I have is available to anyone who seeks it. And don't tell me you do because you demonstrate right here that you do not. You seek authority and something to accept and follow without question or reason.
It's worthless, I'm not going to fill that role even if I can, so you can quit asking me.
This post was edited on 10/16/26 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 10/16/26 at 4:51 pm to 3down10
quote:There is only one God, and yet He gave His message to prophets, to His Son, and to the apostles. You are claiming to have truth from God. That's all the prophets and apostles claimed, too. They substantiated their claims to having divine knowledge to share with others through God's power working in miracles. You claim to have divine knowledge and you are telling me that I need to understand what you claim to know from "God". In a sense, you are a prophet, or at least you are acting as one. You are sharing information that you received from "God". Like it or not, that's what you are acting as when you say that the Bible is not God's word but I should listen to the things you are saying, instead.
Once again I am not claiming to be a prophet, your savior or being special in any way. In fact I keep tell you over and over that I am not those things, that there is only one true teacher and it's not me.
quote:You are acting as a prophet and I'm using God's standard to test you. You neither do miracles nor, most importantly, do you support the testimony that came before you. You are a false prophet and a gnostic heretic that is destined for destruction if you do not turn, as Paul did, and follow Jesus.
YOU are the one who keeps trying to throw those things on me then claim I'm supposed to dance for you in response. The Pharisees did the same thing to Jesus oddly enough.
quote:I didn't call you a demon. I said you likely had a demonic encounter. You are a heretic from a Christian perspective, though, and they are not false accusations. I compare your words to God's standard and you are found wanting.
Among many other labels and things like demon, heretic and all your other false accusations.
quote:You are not just saying I'm wrong, but that the Bible is wrong, based on revelational knowledge that you received directly from "God". Whether you accept that or not is irrelevant, because that's what you're doing.
You only do that because I tell you that you are wrong.
quote:So have I, and I believe I have found it in the Bible, which is God's word, and His Son, the incarnate Word.
All I did was seek the truth. Anyone can do that.
No one can seek the truth and receive what you claim to have. There have been millions of people looking for truth and have found drugs, sex, and rock and roll, or Buddhism, Christianity, or Islam. Many have gone down the path of seeking truth and have not had the experiences you claim to have had. Either no one but you have actually sought the truth, or only you have found it, which makes me think that the truth isn't actually there to be known by others except you, if you are correct (you aren't).
quote:I only read the Bible for understanding and wisdom, and what I have arrived at is not your false belief system.
Maybe if you started reading the bible for understanding and wisdom instead of ways to build up an idol and a blood sacrifice you wouldn't think what I say is so odd.
Even in this statement of yours, you are claiming that the Bible can be read for understanding and wisdom, and yet you deny the Bible actually has it. You are really just claiming certain parts have it, and only those that support the beliefs you already have. No one is going to read the Bible and come to the same conclusions as you. It's only by starting with your claimed revelational experience that anyone could then read the Bible and try to make it fit, and even then, only after ignoring everything that doesn't agree. You are picking and choosing what you want from the Bible, so don't tell me to read the Bible for understanding and wisdom, because no one will find your version of it just by reading it to find those things. If anyone could, there would be millions of gnostics like you instead of Christians.
quote:I'm not looking for another authority at all. I already follow the highest authority, which is God. The Bible is His word, which is the message from the highest authority that I need to know and follow. If you are coming with a different message from "God", you need to prove that message is from God. I'm not looking at you to be an authority, but you need to prove that the message you have comes from God.
What you are actually demonstrating here is that you are just looking for another authority to accept. Not a desire for truth, understanding and wisdom, just someone to accept. You want me to "prove" myself so that you can just accept what I say - and that's just not the point.
quote:What you have is not available, because no one is going to seek it without first having it. You had to have a special revelational experience to come to the conclusions that you have. You have no holy book that shares what you learned. You have no missionary work to spread that message. You have nothing but your own experience, and then you claim others can have it, too. And yet no one does. There has to be a mechanism by which understanding comes. For most belief systems and religions, that mechanism is revelation written down or passed down orally by which teachers and "evangelists" share that information with others. People read a book or listen to someone talk about it so that they can understand it. For your beliefs, the only way is to wait for "God" to warp your consciousness to him/her/it so that he/she/it can saturate you with this understanding in some sort of transfer that doesn't require teaching, reading, or hearing for one's self.
What I have is available to anyone who seeks it. And don't tell me you do because you demonstrate right here that you do not. You seek authority and something to accept and follow without question or reason.
So again, you have no mechanism other than to just tell people to be open to the truth and hope it finds them, because they aren't even supposed to really listen to you.
quote:You can't fill that role because you have no truth to impart to others. You are deceived and are deceiving others here with your gnostic works-righteousness. You offer nothing new or novel, but have only rehashed old heresies with a pantheistic twist. You give no one reason to believe your message is actually true or from "God", and you can't even show a basic comprehension of texts like the Bible to engage in apologetical discussion
It's worthless, I'm not going to fill that role even if I can, so you can quit asking me.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 4:59 pm to 3down10
Posted on 10/16/26 at 5:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
There is only one God, and yet He gave His message to prophets, to His Son, and to the apostles. You are claiming to have truth from God. That's all the prophets and apostles claimed, too. They substantiated their claims to having divine knowledge to share with others through God's power working in miracles. You claim to have divine knowledge and you are telling me that I need to understand what you claim to know from "God". In a sense, you are a prophet, or at least you are acting as one. You are sharing information that you received from "God". Like it or not, that's what you are acting as when you say that the Bible is not God's word but I should listen to the things you are saying, instead.
You are acting as a prophet and I'm using God's standard to test you. You neither do miracles nor, most importantly, do you support the testimony that came before you. You are a false prophet and a gnostic heretic that is destined for destruction if you do not turn, as Paul did, and follow Jesus.
You're just a pharisee who is blinded by scripture.
Everything you do, everything you accuse me of, every bit of that mirrors the scenes with Jesus and the Pharisees. Because the truth did not fit their rigid rules and traditions. They claimed he must be this or that, otherwise he would do miracles and other things for them. They demanded he prove his authority - the same as you.
And despite that being laid out plainly, despite John 14 which describes a personal relationship with God and something not of scripture being that which teaches you, you still hold to the same thing.
It's the book you claim is the Word of God and yet...you seem oblivious or just find substitutions for everything with the ultimate claim that anything you haven't experienced or believe is false - the same as atheists, but less honest.
You claim it's God's standards when in reality is your own standards. You expect miracles of the flesh rather than miracles of the spirit/soul. When I say let those with ears hear, I'm not suggesting people are walking around without physical ears. And not all blind people are without eyes either - such as you that are blinded by scripture. What would be a miracle is if I can give you understanding and to cure your blindness, but ultimately that is not my choice.
I don't see much left to debate about really. It's just the same repetitive things over and over. At the end of the day you think God is found in a book, rather than within. I'm not selling anything, you are. As you said yourself, you post out of fear someone might believe me, aka think you are wrong.
This post was edited on 10/16/26 at 5:35 pm
Page 20 of 26
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News