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re: Whats the boards opinion of doe cutoff dates.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:34 pm to GATORGAR247
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:34 pm to GATORGAR247
quote:
To your point about does seeking out the biggest rack I don't believe that
While it is true that a doe may be getting bred by whatever buck won his way there through fighting and endurance, there is more to it than that.
Miss State Deer lab did a controlled study. They took 2 bucks the same age(6, and body size and cut their horns off. They then strapped antlers onto each of them. One got a big set, the other got a small set. With the bucks separated by a fence so they couldn't see each other, but bordered by a doe coming into estrus that could see them, she chose the one with bigger antlers 80% of the time. 9 they also swapped antlers and did it again and she still chose the big set.)
It is believed that visually she can see that his genetics give her offspring the best chance. Of course this is a controlled environment and im sure the percentage decreases in the wild. Its not unrealistic to think that if a doe knows a large antlered buck beds a certain area that she may frequent it more to gain his attention as she comes into estrus. Of course when you add all the variables in with wild deer, he may not have been available at the time or in the situation you pointed out it may fall in the 20-30% range that she just didn't care.
Understand that im not saying "this is a fact and it cant be any other way". Im just saying that there are studies that suggest certain things. Maybe its not enough for a person to set club rules based on but its information to take into account when obsessing over deer
This post was edited on 12/14/18 at 2:37 pm
2
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:40 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
That's interesting. I tend to think most studies in controlled environments lead to a false outcome when it pertains to wildlife and fish in normal environments. I ran across a study the other day about flounder breeding and how in captivity it takes 8 males to 1 female. Just another study for the state of texas to lower limits and raise size limits imo.
I'm not hunting on a lease that doesn't allow me to kill what the county says I can. Leases are too damn expensive to shoot 1 buck every 3 or 4 years. I'll save that money and go shoot one down in Mexico or south Texas that will dwarf what the clubs call shooters..
I'm not hunting on a lease that doesn't allow me to kill what the county says I can. Leases are too damn expensive to shoot 1 buck every 3 or 4 years. I'll save that money and go shoot one down in Mexico or south Texas that will dwarf what the clubs call shooters..
This post was edited on 12/14/18 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:42 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
she may choose the one with the biggest antlers IF she has a choice
in some instances she may not have too many choices on bucks so she better take the D from whatever she can get
nature is about choosing the fittest mate but it's also about maximizing reproduction
so even though she would prefer that pretty 10 point she saw back in october, in reality his arse got gut shot with a crossbow and ran off in a creek to die now the dominant buck may be a little 6 pt
in some instances she may not have too many choices on bucks so she better take the D from whatever she can get
nature is about choosing the fittest mate but it's also about maximizing reproduction
so even though she would prefer that pretty 10 point she saw back in october, in reality his arse got gut shot with a crossbow and ran off in a creek to die now the dominant buck may be a little 6 pt
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:43 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
I had 2 10 pts on camera in August. One was almost finished growing out while the other was barely at his G2. Biologist will tell you that the one that was in the early stages of growth was likely a late born fawn.
I’m not a biologist but I don’t think this is the case by year 2 or 3. Now the first year of growth absolutely, the 2nd year maybe. But after a couple of years they all drop around the same time and start growing around the same time. If a couple year old buck started growing late I’d think it was more due to genetics or something else, maybe an injury or disease.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:45 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
We can't kill decent bucks because the bucks can basically stand up from their bed and breed
That’s why I’m a proponent of shooting does before the rut: draw the bucks out
quote:
They want it to be a trophy club but let all the does walk.
They’ll never consistently shoot big deer or effective manage a herd without hammering the does
Have a baw weekend on opening weekend, shoot does until you run out of bullets, and hunt bucks the rest of the year
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:47 pm to baldona
On 2000 acres only shooting 5 does to 13 bucks is insane. For proper management you should be closer to 50/50 almost always unless you had a big kill off or something.
I agree shooting does earlier is better but I don’t think it’s anything to sweat.
If you have that big of land, you should absolutely be doing something like no bucks until everyone’s killed a doe AND potentially have a method of giving your does away. The problem on larger clubs is you get multiple guys that don’t want the meat, and never shoot anything but bucks. You need to force them to shoot them and not waste the meat. Then as said, have a rule of 1 for per buck or something along those lines.
Heck OP, maybe have a youth weekend for a Church or something to hammer does only. Make it a non profit fundraiser or something for $50/ doe. Hammer 15 or 20 early on.
I agree shooting does earlier is better but I don’t think it’s anything to sweat.
If you have that big of land, you should absolutely be doing something like no bucks until everyone’s killed a doe AND potentially have a method of giving your does away. The problem on larger clubs is you get multiple guys that don’t want the meat, and never shoot anything but bucks. You need to force them to shoot them and not waste the meat. Then as said, have a rule of 1 for per buck or something along those lines.
Heck OP, maybe have a youth weekend for a Church or something to hammer does only. Make it a non profit fundraiser or something for $50/ doe. Hammer 15 or 20 early on.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:48 pm to Ron Cheramie
True. Just like everyone spending countless hours in a stand to kill a trophy buck that doesn't even exist. I can spend a small fortune on clothes, plots, etc but if the deer aren't there, I cant kill it.
So, with that line of thinking, if you have 2 "shooters" on camera and know they are on your place but also have a bunch of does, well you know those 2 aren't gonna win the heart of all the women. But, when they want a woman, chances are she is gonna want him back over the basket rack. In theory of course
So, with that line of thinking, if you have 2 "shooters" on camera and know they are on your place but also have a bunch of does, well you know those 2 aren't gonna win the heart of all the women. But, when they want a woman, chances are she is gonna want him back over the basket rack. In theory of course
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:51 pm to baldona
That's my thinking too . Antler growth and dropping is caused by hormones. Once the young buck reaches 2 his hormone levels are regulated and he will drop and grow antlers with the rest of the herd.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:10 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
true
so if we sit down and think about all this and what is best for the deer herd we are doing it totally wrong or at least sorta wrong
we want to produce the biggest bucks we can do we can shoot them correct?
the best chance of doing this is during the rut or just before
if we shoot the biggest buck then, we have not let him breed any or at least not all the does he was going to breed because his arse got shot
if we truly wanted to pass on the biggest buck genes we would let him walk until after the rut
of course then we would never see him in the daylight
this is all way too much deep thoughts would be good campfire whiskey talk
so if we sit down and think about all this and what is best for the deer herd we are doing it totally wrong or at least sorta wrong
we want to produce the biggest bucks we can do we can shoot them correct?
the best chance of doing this is during the rut or just before
if we shoot the biggest buck then, we have not let him breed any or at least not all the does he was going to breed because his arse got shot
if we truly wanted to pass on the biggest buck genes we would let him walk until after the rut
of course then we would never see him in the daylight
this is all way too much deep thoughts would be good campfire whiskey talk
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:16 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:
if we shoot the biggest buck then, we have not let him breed any or at least not all the does he was going to breed because his arse got shot
I might regret opening this can of worms on a Friday afternoon, but that’s always been my argument against culling.
You see a mature buck in daylight that’s got a fricked up rack, you shoot it cause it’s a cull.
You see a mature buck in daylight with a pretty rack, you shoot it cause it’s a trophy.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:22 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
Well, I mean, we do it to shoot 'em.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:22 pm to fillmoregandt
quote:
Have a baw weekend on opening weekend, shoot does until you run out of bullets,
It's $150 after the first and then kicked out if I kept shooting. I'm going to bring it up in the meeting next year. We should each be allowed 3 does and all members must shoot a doe before a buck. If they don't want the meat give it away.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:53 pm to Ron Cheramie
Youre absolutely right. That's why its important to have good management practices. Passing on these 2 year olds with great genetics from the trophy you shot means they can still get passed on, while growing into their own potential.
Now if you have a club with 8pt and outside the ear rules then everything with potential gets killed while everything that is lacking doesn't meet the standards and gets to keep breeding
Now if you have a club with 8pt and outside the ear rules then everything with potential gets killed while everything that is lacking doesn't meet the standards and gets to keep breeding
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:59 pm to FrankDrebin
You'll never kill a record book buck shooting does late in the year. I thought everyone knew this????
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:59 pm to FrankDrebin
It's just people trying to make feel good sounding management rules. As you already stated, it makes no sense as there is absolutely no logic behind it.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 4:14 pm to Chris4x4gill2
quote:
Alabama is talking about going back to Doe Seasons. I'd rather have limit on how many we can kill and be able to do so at any point in the season
Area 9 in Louisiana went back to doe days. It sucks. I didn't make meat yet this season, and now I'm getting to the point where I'm weary of shooting a doe because she might bring a buck behind her.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 4:17 pm to Huntinguy
You saying a doe gets bred and has a fawn all before this club’s killing cutoff date?
Whether you kill a doe Oct 1st or January 1st, it’s stjll a doe that will not have a fawn in the spring.
Whether you kill a doe Oct 1st or January 1st, it’s stjll a doe that will not have a fawn in the spring.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 4:26 pm to FrankDrebin
We shoot our does early. Like first week or two.
Never after the rut starts. Thats just stupid. You are killing 2 deer (possibly 3) with one shot.
Never after the rut starts. Thats just stupid. You are killing 2 deer (possibly 3) with one shot.
Posted on 12/14/18 at 4:30 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
Never after the rut starts. Thats just stupid. You are killing 2 deer (possibly 3) with one shot
You're still killing 2 or 3 no matter when you shoot her 95% of all does breed. Whether she's bred or will breed it's the same thing
Posted on 12/14/18 at 5:33 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:
if we shoot the biggest buck then, we have not let him breed any or at least not all the does he was going to breed because his arse got shot
Unless you have some insane buck to doe ratio, he passed his genes. He doesn't start breeding the year you want to kill him. With any luck he might have gotten a little action the first year he grew horns.
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