re: Supressor Question (SilencerCo Hybrid 46)

Reading below.

According to NFA handbook.

LINK (PDF)

Relevant:

>If the applicant on the Form 1 lacks the skill, ability, and/or equipment to manufacture the NFA firearm, the applicant, after receipt of the approved Form 1, can have the firearm created or modified at a premises other than shown on the approved Form 1 as long as the creation or modification was done under the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the firearm. If the location is outside the applicant’s State and the firearm being made is a short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, destructive device, or an unserviceable machinegun which is being reactivated, the applicant will also need to request permission to transport the firearm interstate as required by 27 CFR 478.28.

Great relevant post.

Doesn't really change my previous comments though.

He is saying that you can have the contractor manufacture parts one at a time and call them something else and you are OK. I disagree because, as stated in your post, "the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the firearm."

This is key to that regulation. You have to be standing there while the contractor is doing it.

"What you CANNOT do is have them machine the entire thing at one time AND assemble." As I said, assembly has nothing to do with it.

"that machinist can sell those all day everyday as anything he wants to call them," THAT is going to get someone put in jail. I would HIGHLY advise against going into the business of making and selling silencer parts but casually calling them "anything he wants to call them."

"then take your blanks and have you caps made, then take stock and have your cones shaped to any spec you want them to, NO rules at ALL against that." There are rules against that. The above citation shows the rules. Again, you are basically telling people that as long as you casually manufacture the silencer in pieces and parts then all is good. That is patently untrue. You might as well make it all at once but, based on the excellent citation provided by our fellow OB'er, you better be standing there and advising the machinist. Otherwise, you are breaking the law.

The fricked up part of this, now that I have seen that citation, is that the Form 1 gives an unlicensed individual greater latitude than it gives me as a license manufacturer. I originally wanted to have a minor part for one of my designs manufactured locally and was told the machine shop had to be licensed even though the part they were going to make was something that affixed to the OUTSIDE of the silencer body and was not integral to its function. Their position was that if it attaches to the can it is part of the can. That being said, they will let an unlicensed shop manufacture a mount yet that is required to get the can on the rifle. Makes my head hurt.

"The minutes it is all put together is the minute the law was broken if you don't have the stamp." Well that is just wrong. Constructive Intent is the law on this. Constructive Intent is a well-established legal concept. If you own the parts, it is the same as having the finished device. Many prosecutions of guys having an AR lower, a drilling jig and some M-16 lower receiver parts. They don't even need to drill the AR lower to have the violation occur. Walk into the ATF office with an unlicensed ziplock bag of baffles, a threaded tube and some end caps and explain to them how it isn't assembled. See how that works out.

"This isn't rocket science and dang sure isn't a government conspiracy. Make sure you understand it all and not just half arse it." I was more like 85%ing it. I got schooled by the guy above, and readily admit it, but your statements are still wrong and illegal. If you want to go sidestepping and playing on the razor's edge of the law that is fine but you shouldn't be on here telling people it is A-OK to do it.

quote:

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Oh, I'm not attacking you. Just making clear what the law is.

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Not even close. You 100% showed me something I hadn't seen before. I really appreciate it. It doesn't change my position that he was putting out some bad info. You just correctly showed that there is a legal way to do it. I am always willing to say when I am wrong. I just don't want to see anyone get locked up on this shite.

Can you give me the Section number for that? I am guessing it came from Chapter 6? I want to dig into this for future use.

The entire relevant section for those interested. Good stuff to avoid going to Federal pound you in the butt prison here.

Section 6.4 Approval of Form 1. Non-FFL/SOT’s may seek approval to manufacture an NFA firearm
(e.g., short-barreled rifles, short-barreled, shotguns, wallet guns, etc.) via submission of an ATF Form 1.
Upon receipt of the completed Form 1, ATF will process the application and, if approved, a tax stamp
will be affixed to the original of the form and the approved application will be returned to the applicant.
Approval by ATF will effect registration of the firearm to the applicant. Upon receipt of the approved
application, the applicant may make the firearm described on the approved Form 1. The approved form
must be retained by the applicant and made available at all times for inspection by ATF officers or
investigators. Note: Under no circumstances may the firearm in question be made prior to receipt of
the approved Form 1.

The approval of the Form 1 application authorizes the applicant to make the firearm. The approval does
not authorize the applicant to convey or ship the firearm to another person to manufacture the NFA
firearm. If another person will manufacture the NFA firearm, the other person would be the maker and
the application must be submitted by that person. Subsequent to the making, the firearm could then be
transferred, subsequent to an approved Form 4 application, to the person who wanted the modification to
be made.

If the applicant on the Form 1 lacks the skill, ability, and/or equipment to manufacture the NFA firearm,
the applicant, after receipt of the approved Form 1, can have the firearm created or modified at a
premises other than shown on the approved Form 1 as long as the creation or modification was done
under the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the
firearm. If the location is outside the applicant’s State and the firearm being made is a short barreled
rifle, short barreled shotgun, destructive device, or an unserviceable machinegun which is being
reactivated, the applicant will also need to request permission to transport the firearm interstate as
required by 27 CFR 478.28.

NOTE here that a silencer is technically exempt from the requirements of 27 CFR 478.28 even though ATF (depending on who you talk to) "encourages" you to fill out an ATF 5320.20 for transport of a silencer.