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LSUperior
Member since Aug 2009
842 posts

So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
I was at a local gun shop and was talking with the worker and we got on the subject of SBRs and stamps. And that's when he mentioned that now it is legal to shoulder an AR pistol that has a brace (stock) as long as it isn't adjustable. Is that correct?
This post was edited on 12/7 at 9:28 am


Success
Member since Sep 2015
396 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Not entirely true. The atf specifically mentioned braces made by sb tactical. Still a lot of gray area in my opinion


LSUperior
Member since Aug 2009
842 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
quote:

Not entirely true. The atf specifically mentioned braces made by sb tactical. Still a lot of gray area in my opinion


You're saying ATF stated that only braces made by a certain company (sb tactical) can be shouldered legally?


BayouBengal51
LSU Fan
Midway, Louisiana
Member since Nov 2006
4940 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
From Sig Sauer regarding the shouldering the pistol with the brace attached:

ATF Clarifies Ruling

quote:

“With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not ‘make’ a short-barreled firearm because … it is not intended to be and cannot comfortably be fired from the shoulder.” The letter continues: “Therefore, an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not re-configured for use as a shoulder stock — even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder.” The following passage from the letter acknowledges the confusion surrounding the January 2015 “Open Letter on the Redesign of ‘Stabilizing Braces’”, and clarifies that ATF does not consider shouldering a PSB-equipped firearm, in and of itself, to render it an SBR. “To the extent the January 2015 Open Letter implied or has been construed to hold that incidental, sporadic, or situational ‘use’ of an arm-brace (in its original approved configuration) equipped firearm from a firing position at or near the shoulder was sufficient to constitute a ‘redesign,’ such interpretations are incorrect and not consistent with ATF’s interpretation of the statute or the manner in which it has historically been enforced.”


From what I gathered from info available on the web, it is legal to shoulder them now. Just as long as you do not modify the brace from it's factory configuration, such as making it permanently attached to the buffer tube (which creates a length that has no other purpose than to facilitate its use as a stock), removing the arm strap, etc.
This post was edited on 12/7 at 9:45 am


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AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
59481 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
I watched Gun Stories on these recently. They said this was a gray area like the poster above said. The best part though, was a statement along the lines of, "...they were the answer to a question nobody asked, and a question that no one should ever ask."


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Propagandalf
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2010
2460 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
quote:

Not entirely true. The atf specifically mentioned braces made by sb tactical. Still a lot of gray area in my opinion


This was SB's spin on it to try to make people think it was only their product that was approved since the original letter was addressing their brace. Other providers contacted ATF and debunked this and there are some clarifications floating around for those as well. Basically if you leave an approved brace unaltered you are good to go. The way these braces are going and "intent" being the driver of what something is...its only a matter of time before someone sends in an adjustable stock and says if this is only used as a brace is it a brace? Despite the ATF's asinine rules, I don't see how they'll be able to say no.


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Success
Member since Sep 2015
396 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
The letter specifically mentioned sb tactical braces. It’s so vague and like said it doesn’t answer the question. There is a good video on YouTube from the military arms channel discussing this exact letter


quote:

This was SB's spin on it to try to make people think it was only their product that was approved since the original letter was addressing their brace. Other providers contacted ATF and debunked this and there are some clarifications floating around for those as well. Basically if you leave an approved brace unaltered you are good to go. The way these braces are going and "intent" being the driver of what something is...its only a matter of time before someone sends in an adjustable stock and says if this is only used as a brace is it a brace? Despite the ATF's asinine rules, I don't see how they'll be able to say no.


listen to prop...he knows whats up
This post was edited on 12/7 at 10:15 am


baldona
Auburn Fan
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
6988 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
My understanding, and I don't even own one, is that you are allowed to shoulder and use 'pistol' stocks on sbr's but you are not allowed to have a rifle stock. Basically the stock needs to be a carbine stock and not a rifle stock.
This post was edited on 12/7 at 10:26 am


Propagandalf
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2010
2460 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Any stock plus barrel shorter than 16" = SBR. There is no such thing as a "pistol stock" when it comes down to how the ATF defines firearms...with the exception of a few specifically named pistols from the WWII and before era


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CP3
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
6311 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Even if its a gray area, I'm pretty sure no one has ever been prosecuted for shouldering one

If I were to hypothetically do it, I wouldn't be worried about getting in trouble for it
This post was edited on 12/7 at 11:43 am


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Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
2216 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Negative, my brother worked for GearHeadWorks until recently and this was a huge spin by SB to try and take advantage of the market.

The way it works is the ATF is not going to address the industry on their own, however if you write to them (which SB’s attorneys did) addressing an issue then they will respond to you, which is what happened. So even though the correspondence was directed back to SB tactical, the opinion was not that ONLY their braces were ok to be shoulder but all competitors as well, as long as they were not altered from their factory state (don’t put a rubber pad at the end of the Buttstock).


Success
Member since Sep 2015
396 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Good to hear


HeadSlash
Army Fan
TEAM LIVE BADASS
Member since Aug 2006
31670 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
My attorney said you don't want to be the test case


Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
2216 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
KAK industry even called them (ATF) shortly after the debacle for clarification and they were told the brace industry was clear to shoulder.


Success
Member since Sep 2015
396 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Can you point to where you read this? I believe you I’d just like to have that info at hand


Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
2216 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
It was a private message from the CEO of KAK to my brother when he worked in the brace industry.
Edit: I got him to find the link for me on KAK’s site regarding ATF approval. LINK
This post was edited on 12/7 at 6:44 pm


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Sancho Panza
Mississippi St. Fan
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
7155 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
What's the Maximum Effective Range of a 11.5" barrel AR15 Pistol?
This post was edited on 12/9 at 2:45 pm


finchmeister08
Florida Fan
Where the light is...
Member since Mar 2011
16631 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
I’d also like to know if they’re any scope/sight restrictions for AR pistols.


Sancho Panza
Mississippi St. Fan
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
7155 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
Don't think so.

Just no forward grip.


finchmeister08
Florida Fan
Where the light is...
Member since Mar 2011
16631 posts

re: So now it is legal to shoulder AR style pistols that have a brace?
that's what i was thinking.


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