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Message

re: regulators mount up militias to take on LBM in nevada.

Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:09 pm to
Posted by AUCE05
Member since Dec 2009
44897 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:09 pm to
Again, it's expected when you go into business with the federal government. Their land, their rules. If you can't feed your 900 head of cattle, buy more land or sell cows. I don't feel sorry for the guy. What they're protecting (turtle, moose, bison, etc.) is a moot point.
Posted by pointdog33
Member since Jan 2012
2765 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:09 pm to
I can only imagine how much of a bitch it is to round up cows on 600,000 acres. 660 acres to the cow is a sparse stocking rate.
Posted by Mung
Ba’on Rooj
Member since Aug 2007
9148 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:46 pm to
Typical freeloader bullshite. The cattle guy who rents my MiL's pasture pays around $5K per year for 150-200 acres in Grand Parish on the Red River. Not sure how many head he runs on it. I'm sure it produces more grass than the Nevada desert, but these western cattlemen graze their cattle on public land for next to nothing. Then there is a shitstorm when elk or buffalo compete, or wolves eat, or there is any interference with their "right" to cheap use of public land. Let them pay the going rate like everyone in LA has to do.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295724 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

buy more land or sell cows.


Not sure that was an option. When you're surrounded by federal land (like I am) your land options are limited.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295724 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:51 pm to
quote:


Rancher is going to lose. Any militia who show up and take shots at government agents will go to prison.


Yep, this happened in Alaska during the great Jimmy Carter land grab. They went in and burned down the homesteads and trapper cabins at the time. Many folks here still haven't forgotten.
Posted by Tigris
Cloud Cuckoo Land
Member since Jul 2005
13068 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 4:58 pm to
quote:

The EPA recently "raided" some local mines in AK to check water violations dressed like stormtroopers


Same thing happened at a chemical plant where I used to work. Workers trying to unionize lied to the EPA and FBI who came charging in with an absurd raid. It dragged on for years since there was zero chance that the EPA or FBI would apologize for screwing up and acting like a bunch of Neanderthals. Finally the plant owners apologized and paid a fine just to make the nonsense go away. The Feds really are full of themselves.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295724 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:04 pm to
quote:


Same thing happened at a chemical plant where I used to work. Workers trying to unionize lied to the EPA and FBI who came charging in with an absurd raid. It dragged on for years since there was zero chance that the EPA or FBI would apologize for screwing up and acting like a bunch of Neanderthals. Finally the plant owners apologized and paid a fine just to make the nonsense go away. The Feds really are full of themselves.


This happened in Chicken. It created some interest.

LINK
quote:


"The EPA's use of unnecessary armed intimidation tactics against Alaska miners this summer was extreme, especially to investigate potential Clean Water Act violations from what are essentially a handful of small business owners," said Vitter. "At the very least, EPA owes Congress and the American people a thorough explanation, but since they have refused to publicly explain their raid, I hope DOJ will investigate EPA's excessive actions."
Posted by Fishhead
Elmendorf, TX
Member since Jan 2008
12463 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:25 pm to
quote:

does he not lose those rights when he stops paying the agreed upon fee?
Many of you have still not figured out the REASON he quit paying the fee. The fee was NOT just so his cattle could graze. It was because the gubment was supposed to be maintaining the land, and they were not...SO he quit paying the fee and maintained it himself for the last few years.
Posted by Fishhead
Elmendorf, TX
Member since Jan 2008
12463 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

Again, it's expected when you go into business with the federal government. Their land, their rules.
You say that like he went to the government and asked them if he could graze on their land. That's not how this happened, ya know. He didn't just decide to "go into business with the federal government".
Posted by mack the knife
EBR
Member since Oct 2012
4264 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:39 pm to
this is one f-ed up situation: hard-headed individual and a bunch of dick-bag federal arse holes. prob blame for both groups here. BUT, the root problem as i see it is its more of the damn "government" trying to assume the role of big brother doling-out a resource to individuals like we are all some sort of heard to be taken care of from cradle to grave.
i really don't care if the rancher is wrong, i hope he prevales (or however its spelled) and the feds end up looking like the big arse holes they are.
Posted by hardhead
stinky bayou
Member since Jun 2009
5747 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 5:42 pm to
Y'all are missing the point.

There are turtles there and we should go eat them!
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
20424 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:00 pm to
quote:

through imminent domain


Imminent domain is some fricking bullshite, my family lost A LOT of land to Entergy/LP&L many moons ago through this crap.

Went from having land about the size of the Bonnett Carre to barely enough to put 6 or 7 houses on it.
Posted by N2cars
Close by
Member since Feb 2008
37906 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:23 pm to
Even if he's wrong, I agree with him.


The .gov will screw anybody it gets a notion to, you and me included.
Getting kind of sick of it, frankly.
Posted by AUCE05
Member since Dec 2009
44897 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:24 pm to
Well, his family signed a contract with them 125 years ago. So, I'm sure he's aware of how the gov works. I don't see how profiting off of 600,000 acres of gov land is legal, but we are about to find out.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295724 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:26 pm to
quote:


The .gov will screw anybody it gets a notion to, you and me included.


Their heavy handed shite will not meet a submissive population. They need to learn some PR.
Posted by Nodust
Member since Aug 2010
22764 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:32 pm to
quote:

600,000 acres of gov land

Wasn't it $0.25 per acre? If that is per year $150000 to graze 900 cows.

quote:

I don't see how profiting
Posted by Nodust
Member since Aug 2010
22764 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 6:34 pm to
Tons of people profit from the govt. He isn't stealing anything someone really wants. Other than a few turtles. They can still drill the oil out even with cows on it.

I think he is wrong but hope it turns out good for him. The govt already wasted more taxpayers money than it is worth.
Posted by CoastieGM
Member since Aug 2012
3185 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:03 pm to
quote:

Typical freeloader bullshite. The cattle guy who rents my MiL's pasture pays around $5K per year for 150-200 acres in Grand Parish on the Red River. Not sure how many head he runs on it. I'm sure it produces more grass than the Nevada desert, but these western cattlemen graze their cattle on public land for next to nothing. Then there is a shitstorm when elk or buffalo compete, or wolves eat, or there is any interference with their "right" to cheap use of public land. Let them pay the going rate like everyone in LA has to do.


Uh...do you have any familiarity with a BLM or Forest Service grazing leases whatsoever? They are quite intricate with deliverables required of both parties, and it's nothing like the typical quid pro quo Lessor/Lessee arrangement you're familiar with. The "rent" charged by the government represents only a fraction of the lessee's expenditures on the land that benefits the govt.

Perhaps you may consider reserving facile pronouncements until after you sufficiently educate yourself on the situation, especially the BLM's failure to produce its deliverables and utilize collected monies collected in a manner dictated by the agreement.

(I purchased the remaining 28 years of a 75-year Forest Service lease for 6,500 acres in New Mexico. It bears absolutely no resemblance to a simplistic Boudreaux's Mama's deer lease.)
Posted by eng08
Member since Jan 2013
5997 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 8:38 pm to
So you have 6500 acres to wander around on?

Any elk on there?
Posted by Tigris
Cloud Cuckoo Land
Member since Jul 2005
13068 posts
Posted on 4/11/14 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

This happened in Chicken


Good grief. That's about the last place I'd picture something like that happening. For people who don't know about Chicken it's a tiny little tourist trap in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Staging a raid on Chicken seems like one of the goofiest ideas imaginable.

In the case I know of they showed up at the plant with a massive show of force, forbid the operators from controlling the plant (nuts), wandered around the plant with their guns and no safety gear (hardhats, hearing protection, etc which are mandatory), parked in all the handicapped spots for weeks, convened a grand jury which they kept going for years desperately looking for anything to stick when their original charges fell apart. If anybody had told me something like it could happen I would have thought they were tinfoil hat kooks.
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