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Message
re: Pistol Round accuracy comparisons
Posted on 2/4/22 at 12:05 pm to EF Hutton
Posted on 2/4/22 at 12:05 pm to EF Hutton
Back to the OP, at 25 & 50 yards, absolutely the pistol itself matters, assuming you know how to shoot. No op error.
I would think the Beretta 92F would be very accurate with that 5 inch barrel, and that open action.
I would think the Beretta 92F would be very accurate with that 5 inch barrel, and that open action.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 12:45 pm to spacewrangler
quote:
357sig
Obviously the most accurate.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:01 pm to EF Hutton
quote:Sounds like you did get some good training, considering that era. I had not previously realized that Green Jeans cadets went through the P.O.S.T. course.
Post course involved 2 yards, 15 yards, and 25 yards.
I get the 2 yards, because in the field, we maintain a reactionary gap of 6 feet. No one gets closer than 6 feet.
Now, back in the 1990's, every leo underwent in service sensitivity training, that said certain ethnics gesture differently. Arabs like to get close, etc and we were not to take it as a reactionary gap intrusion.
I don't think so !
But i get it, the closeness of a field interview gone bad.
But I'm not sure that your game warden career really puts you on par with a real LEO, or qualifies you to disparage people like you did in that revolver thread. Those comments about "street tactics," coming from from a former Green Jeans, were a bit overstated.
FWIW the current POST course of fire (as of 2009) is as follows:
6 shots at 2 yards
12 shots at 4 yards
24 shots at 7 yards
6 shots at 15 yards (using barricade)
12 shots at 25 yards (using barricade)
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:31 pm to dawg23
quote:
Sounds like you did get some good training, considering that era. I had not previously realized that Green Jeans cadets went through the P.O.S.T. course.
WAIT A FREAKING SECOND....
Is EF Hutton our Whoophead Dolly GJ?!?!?!?
Please sweet baby Jesus. Tell me this is Whoophead Dolly GJ.
This post was edited on 2/4/22 at 6:10 pm
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:33 pm to bbvdd
As for practice and accuracy,
If you can't consistently hit an 8x11 sheet of paper at 25yds you need to be practicing more.
If you can't consistently hit an 8x11 sheet of paper at 25yds you need to be practicing more.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:39 pm to bbvdd
The old textbook, " Street Survival- Tactics for Armed Encounters " used illustrations from several real life incidents, including the 1973 Howard Johnson Sniper Incident in Nola.
The April 11, 1986 Miami incident was also a teachable moment.
The April 11, 1986 Miami incident was also a teachable moment.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:45 pm to spacewrangler
If your common pistol distances are 25 and 50 yards you are a hell of a lot better shot than 99.9% of people.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:48 pm to spacewrangler
quote:I originally read this as .357 mag, to which I would say is the most accurate at distance. But I'm not sure out of these.
357sig
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:49 pm to EF Hutton
And back in the early 1970's, which i believe Magnum Force is based in, that funny stance by Davis WAS the old FBI stance. For that time, Davis was not out of place.
Now walking down town square in the middle of the street, yeah its an entertainment movie, but he did make use of cover and was very good with those Safariland Speedloaders. So, he obviously had movie set coaching.
But on that revolver thread, people who are not qualified to judge police tactics, from that time, were indeed trying to judge.
And i know how civilian competition shooters operate. I see that pulling into chest, pushing away from chest, pivoting like your waist is a tank turret.
Thats fine for civilian competition and i am sure many of them can out shoot regular officers. But it is Not part of leo training.
Now walking down town square in the middle of the street, yeah its an entertainment movie, but he did make use of cover and was very good with those Safariland Speedloaders. So, he obviously had movie set coaching.
But on that revolver thread, people who are not qualified to judge police tactics, from that time, were indeed trying to judge.
And i know how civilian competition shooters operate. I see that pulling into chest, pushing away from chest, pivoting like your waist is a tank turret.
Thats fine for civilian competition and i am sure many of them can out shoot regular officers. But it is Not part of leo training.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 1:54 pm to captdalton
quote:
If your common pistol distances are 25 and 50 yards you are a hell of a lot better shot than 99.9% of people.
If you train at 25 and 50 then 5 is much easier.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 2:52 pm to bbvdd
quote:He is absolutely former GJ (or as my State Trooper buddies call them, "Possum Cops").
WAIT A FREAKING SECOND....
Is the Whoophead Dolly GJ?!?!?!?
Please sweet baby Jesus. Tell me this is Whoophead Dolly GJ.
Look at his old posts:
6/20
quote:
I worked the decoy, and live decoys many times in the 90’s. We had some funny stops, people beating on hood, yelling at it, many turn-arounds, but no one shot it. We did not even check these peeps
12/21
quote:
I did the exact same thing in a lease. Way back in the woods. Found a truck with no plates. Ran a 29 on the vin. Came back stolen. Registered to a name i knew was a member of that lease. Insurance fraud. Bam, busted him
Posted on 2/4/22 at 2:54 pm to dawg23
quote:
He is absolutely former GJ (or as my State Trooper buddies call them, "Possum Cops").
I so want him to be Whoophead Dolly GJ
Posted on 2/4/22 at 3:21 pm to dawg23
quote:
Current through Register Vol. 47, No. 12, December 20, 2021
Section III-4723 - POST Firearms Qualification Course
A. Official Post Course
Stage I
*25 yards
6 rounds standing, strong side barricade, strong hand
6 rounds standing, barricade, strong hand or support hand, off-side
(60 seconds)
*NOTE: Movement to barricade required, maximum distance 5 yards.
Stage II
*15 yards
3 rounds right side kneeling position**
3 rounds left side kneeling position**
(35 seconds movement time included)
(30 seconds for indoor range)
*NOTE: Movement to kneeling position from 25-yard line to 15-yard line.
**NOTE: Shooter will "simulate" the usage of a low barricade if no barricade is available.
Stage III
7 yards
Phase I
6 rounds strong hand only from the holster.
Ready gun after rounds are fired.
(10 seconds)
Phase II
6 rounds support hand only from ready gun
(10 seconds)
Phase III
6 rounds standing
6 rounds kneeling reload while kneeling*
(25 seconds)
*NOTE: Mandatory reloading for all weapons during Phase III.
Stage IV
4 yards
Phase I **Headshots mandatory**
2 rounds body, 1 round head, step right, hold cover (3 seconds)
2 rounds body, 1 round head, step left (3 seconds)
scan and holster
Phase II **Headshots mandatory**
2 rounds body, 1 round head, step left, hold cover (3 seconds)
2 rounds body, 1 round head, step right (3 seconds)
scan and holster
Stage V
2 yards
2 rounds, one or two hands (2 seconds) Close quarter shooting position from holster with one full step to the rear. Repeat twice
Target:
LA P-1
Possible Points:
120
Qualification:
96 (80 percent overall)
Scoring:
Inside ring = 2 points
Outside ring = 1 point
POST Course is fired using a "HOT LINE"!
B. Scoring of Target
I. INTRODUCTION
The following guidelines are published to provide a standard target and scoring system for the POST Qualification Course. The POST Qualification Target will be used for the course.
II. SCORING OF THE POST TARGET
A. Each hit in the silhouette, outside of the scoring ring, will be scored as one point.
B. Each hit in the scoring ring will be scored as two points. This includes the head and neck inside the ring.
C. A hit will not be recorded in the next higher scoring ring unless it breaks the line.
III. QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS
A. Shooter must shoot 80% of possible 120 = 96 minimum score
5 shot 50 rounds worth 2 points each = 100 scoring points
80% of possible 100 = 80 minimum score on 5 shot
B. Basic academy qualification shooter will fire course 4 consecutive times and must average 80% minimum.
C. For Annual Re-Qualification, POST Course must be fired once annually with 80% minimum score.
D. For qualification course, basic or annual, certified POST Firearms Instructor must score the target.
For basic academy and Annual Re-Qualification, qualification course MUST be fired in order listed.
C. The effective date for implementation of this POST qualification course is January 1, 2019.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 3:28 pm to Shexter
Thanks for the update. I was pretty sure the course of fire had changed at least once (maybe more) since 2009, which is why I listed the date.
I don't think it gets changed "super often" because it affects so many agencies.
I don't think it gets changed "super often" because it affects so many agencies.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 4:11 pm to dawg23
Jim McClain my old college buddy. I know you know him.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 5:15 pm to EF Hutton
quote:I know you didn't serve with him in the military.
Jim McClain my old college buddy. I know you know him.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 5:26 pm to dawg23
He was an EBRSO reserve around 1989
We called him Tackleberry in college.
We called him Tackleberry in college.
This post was edited on 2/4/22 at 5:28 pm
Posted on 2/4/22 at 6:02 pm to EF Hutton
I knew Jim's father better than I knew Jim. Both were super-nice people on the (very) few occasions when I interacted with them.
I'm sure you're probably a nice guy as well. And I'm sure you know a fair amount about firearms, hunting and self-defense.
But I don't think taking a P.O.S.T. course 40 years ago, and spending some indeterminant amount of time as a hunter and as a possum cop, entitles you to belittle and/or talk down to members of this forum the way you have for quite a while. It may or may not be your intent, but your posts often come across as supercilious and condescending.
There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on the Outdoor Board. You might be surprised at what you could learn by reading their posts instead criticizing them like some sort of self-anointed expert.
I'm sure you're probably a nice guy as well. And I'm sure you know a fair amount about firearms, hunting and self-defense.
But I don't think taking a P.O.S.T. course 40 years ago, and spending some indeterminant amount of time as a hunter and as a possum cop, entitles you to belittle and/or talk down to members of this forum the way you have for quite a while. It may or may not be your intent, but your posts often come across as supercilious and condescending.
There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on the Outdoor Board. You might be surprised at what you could learn by reading their posts instead criticizing them like some sort of self-anointed expert.
Posted on 2/4/22 at 6:26 pm to dawg23
I only respond in defense. Davis demonstrated that he was coached by a set advisor. He demonstrated good use of speedloading, and i know he used Safariland loaders because they are released by push. HKS are released by twist.
Davis demonstrated proper use of cover while speedloading. For the times the stance was popular. The walking down the town square, well, its a movie. You gotta expect some fiction. But then all these people who have never had leo academy training suddenly start commenting negatively because i stated he did some things right. I am not an outboard motor mechanic, and would never question one who is, on how to repair one.
And you are Dead wrong on the level of State training. Wildlife surpasses LSP. This is NOT the poe dunk LSU post school. We set Landmark case law ( State V McHugh). We had Federal commissions. Oh, and your boy J Mikeluik, his brother Donny was star Agent on that case.
So, i am sure you are one of the best in ccw training. I looked at your page. But know your limitations like that outboard mechanic example.
And i am unlike most- i hit back , but am also the best friend & will help alot of folks.
Davis demonstrated proper use of cover while speedloading. For the times the stance was popular. The walking down the town square, well, its a movie. You gotta expect some fiction. But then all these people who have never had leo academy training suddenly start commenting negatively because i stated he did some things right. I am not an outboard motor mechanic, and would never question one who is, on how to repair one.
And you are Dead wrong on the level of State training. Wildlife surpasses LSP. This is NOT the poe dunk LSU post school. We set Landmark case law ( State V McHugh). We had Federal commissions. Oh, and your boy J Mikeluik, his brother Donny was star Agent on that case.
So, i am sure you are one of the best in ccw training. I looked at your page. But know your limitations like that outboard mechanic example.
And i am unlike most- i hit back , but am also the best friend & will help alot of folks.
This post was edited on 2/4/22 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 2/4/22 at 7:12 pm to EF Hutton
quote:
Surviving edged Weapons training showed that. A cadet with a rubber knife closed in on you, as you were expected to drop a mag and reload, to kill him. I beat him, but only by back stepping to buy some time. They can be on you in a second. Boom !
Yeah it’s really shocking how quick a person can pull knife and cover ten feet. It’s something a lot of people don’t understand when criticizing cops.
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