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Started By
Message
NFA/ Class 3 Registration
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:10 pm
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:10 pm
I know there have been a lot of discussion over the years on here regarding the registration process in order to purchase Class 3 products, but Im wanting to make sure I'm understanding this the right way.
Option #1: Register individually. Less expensive route. I'd be the sole owner. I would need to be present at any time of use, including the wife and boys. Would have to register ever time I purchased a Class 3 product
Option #2: Register a Trust. More expensive. More paperwork. More legal users. Multiple Class 3 products.
Am I understanding that right? What is the OB perferred method?
Thanks guys
Option #1: Register individually. Less expensive route. I'd be the sole owner. I would need to be present at any time of use, including the wife and boys. Would have to register ever time I purchased a Class 3 product
Option #2: Register a Trust. More expensive. More paperwork. More legal users. Multiple Class 3 products.
Am I understanding that right? What is the OB perferred method?
Thanks guys
5
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:20 pm to ChandlerB03
Trust also gives an easier way to pass the guns down after death with less trouble for the person inheriting them...
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:20 pm to ChandlerB03
Not much difference anymore since July 13. Yes a trust costs a little more but there can be multiple owners of the suppressor,sbr. With the new changes everyone in the trust must submit photograph,fingerprints and have background check instead of just first person named on the trust having background check. No more getting chief leo to sign off on your purchase with or without trust,just notification of chief leo.Still have to register/ pay tax on every device purchased/manufactured with or without trust. Trust is still better because of multiple person ownership/possesion.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:22 pm to ChandlerB03
Technically, you don't register. You just fill out the form (Form 4) for the transfer of the SBR/Silencer at your local dealer. You have to do this for each individual item that you apply for, regardless of whether you file individual or trust.
Before July of this year, it was advantageous to do it via trust, since no fingerprints/photos were required, and you did not have to have CLEO signature. That rule has changed, and now trusts must meet the same requirements as individuals (plus fingerprints and photos for each member of trust, which is a hassle).
The only advantage of a trust now is that multiple people can legally possess the NFA item. Also, for both methods, there is no CLEO officer signature required anymore, just a letter of notification.
Go to your local NFA dealer. I'm sure someone on here knows some good places to go. If in Shreveport area, Cash N a Flash on North Market is a good place. Usually, a good NFA dealer will walk you through the whole process, including building a trust if you choose that route.
ETA-Check out ar15.com NFA forum. It's a good place to get reliable information about everything NFA.
Before July of this year, it was advantageous to do it via trust, since no fingerprints/photos were required, and you did not have to have CLEO signature. That rule has changed, and now trusts must meet the same requirements as individuals (plus fingerprints and photos for each member of trust, which is a hassle).
The only advantage of a trust now is that multiple people can legally possess the NFA item. Also, for both methods, there is no CLEO officer signature required anymore, just a letter of notification.
Go to your local NFA dealer. I'm sure someone on here knows some good places to go. If in Shreveport area, Cash N a Flash on North Market is a good place. Usually, a good NFA dealer will walk you through the whole process, including building a trust if you choose that route.
ETA-Check out ar15.com NFA forum. It's a good place to get reliable information about everything NFA.
This post was edited on 11/28/16 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:25 pm to ChandlerB03
It's a little more complicated than that now with current NFA rules.
If purchasing an NFA item as an individual, you must:
- submit form 4 (or form 1 if you're building an NFA item)
- submit fingerprints and photo ID
If purchasing an NFA item for a trust:
- submit form 4 (or form 1)
- submit copy of your trust
- submit fingerprints and photo ID for every person listed in your trust
All of these things must be done every time you purchase or build a new NFA item regardless of whether you use a trust or not.
If purchasing an NFA item as an individual, you must:
- submit form 4 (or form 1 if you're building an NFA item)
- submit fingerprints and photo ID
If purchasing an NFA item for a trust:
- submit form 4 (or form 1)
- submit copy of your trust
- submit fingerprints and photo ID for every person listed in your trust
All of these things must be done every time you purchase or build a new NFA item regardless of whether you use a trust or not.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:33 pm to 03GeeTee
Seems like a major PITA
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:38 pm to wickowick
Thanks for the info. I knew the laws had recently changed by talking to my cousin who just last year started a trust so he could start building an sbr.
Wick, you said it. Easier way to pass the guns, silencers, etc. down to the boys.
Wick, you said it. Easier way to pass the guns, silencers, etc. down to the boys.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:39 pm to dboy8713
quote:
Technically, you don't register. You just fill out the form (Form 4) for the transfer of the SBR/Silencer at your local dealer.
The extended name of the Form 4 is:
quote:
Form 4 - Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm (ATF Form 5320.4)
Also, "class 3" firearms is a misnomer referring to a retailer/01 FFL's SOT registration type, which is 03.
Posted on 11/28/16 at 10:40 pm to dboy8713
quote:
Go to your local NFA dealer
Hell didn't even think about that. I know a guy at Bowies here in Natchez
Posted on 11/28/16 at 11:29 pm to Propagandalf
I was referring to registration of the trust, which you don't do in Louisiana. Just needs to be notarized. Sorry for the confusion.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 1:39 am to ChandlerB03
quote:
Easier way to pass the guns, silencers, etc. down to the boys.
DONT base your decision off of inheritance. That all changed with the new rules and there is no specific advantage anymore. Individual inheritance is codified and free now. You just fill out and submit a form.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 8:25 am to jbgleason
quote:
Individual inheritance is codified and free now
Meaning as long as I have the items willed to the boys they would get them?
Part of the reason I'm asking is because of just that, the boys are only 11 and 7. Since they cannot legally, because of their age, buy their own Class 3 I wouldn't be able to list them as part of the trust, only beneficiaries
Posted on 11/29/16 at 9:12 am to ChandlerB03
They either can or can't legally possess the firearms as minors. Being a part of the Trust wouldn't change that. The new changes allow for transfer of lawfully possessed NFA weapons to a legal heir as part of the estate process.
More importantly, the law now allows a designated executor to legally possess the NFA weapons during the conduct of the process. It didn't before and anyone possessing those weapons during the transfer process was technically in violation of Federal Law. It just wasn't prosecuted.
So having or not having a Trust really doesn't matter for purposes of inheritance. Like it was said before, the only advantage these days is that more than one person can legally possess the item. No one takes my stuff out without me around so the Trust doesn't help me. If you think the boys might want to go shooting without you when they are of age then that might be something to consider.
More importantly, the law now allows a designated executor to legally possess the NFA weapons during the conduct of the process. It didn't before and anyone possessing those weapons during the transfer process was technically in violation of Federal Law. It just wasn't prosecuted.
So having or not having a Trust really doesn't matter for purposes of inheritance. Like it was said before, the only advantage these days is that more than one person can legally possess the item. No one takes my stuff out without me around so the Trust doesn't help me. If you think the boys might want to go shooting without you when they are of age then that might be something to consider.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 9:28 am to jbgleason
How difficult would it be to buy a few items as an individual and then set up a trust and transfer ownership at a later date?
Posted on 11/29/16 at 9:29 am to jbgleason
Awesome. Great info.
Let's say I don't go the trust route until they become of age, would I be able to transfer the weapons into the trust?
Let's say I don't go the trust route until they become of age, would I be able to transfer the weapons into the trust?
Posted on 11/29/16 at 10:22 am to JamalSanders
quote:
How difficult would it be to buy a few items as an individual and then set up a trust and transfer ownership at a later date?
Not difficult, but you'd have to pay tax stamp. I would just start out with the trust.
quote:
would I be able to transfer the weapons into the trust?
Yes.
This post was edited on 11/29/16 at 10:23 am
Posted on 11/29/16 at 11:14 am to bluemoons
If you are going to do a Trust then just do one. Don't do individual and then pay to transfer to Trust. That would be ludicrous.
I am not anti-Trust, it is just that people get sold one by guys who make $250 a pop writing them and then realize they really don't need it.
Let me make it as simple as I can. If MORE THAN ONE PERSON wants to possess and use the NFA Firearms by themselves, then get a Trust. If only one person wants to use the NFA items, or if that person will always be present when those NFA items are used, then save the $250 and go individual. It really can't be stated simpler than that.
I am not anti-Trust, it is just that people get sold one by guys who make $250 a pop writing them and then realize they really don't need it.
Let me make it as simple as I can. If MORE THAN ONE PERSON wants to possess and use the NFA Firearms by themselves, then get a Trust. If only one person wants to use the NFA items, or if that person will always be present when those NFA items are used, then save the $250 and go individual. It really can't be stated simpler than that.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 11:23 am to jbgleason
quote:
it is just that people get sold one by guys who make $250 a pop writing them and then realize they really don't need it.
I'm one of those guys, and I'm always very up front with clients about the benefits and drawbacks, especially post 41F.
Posted on 11/29/16 at 11:30 am to jbgleason
quote:
Let me make it as simple as I can. If MORE THAN ONE PERSON wants to possess and use the NFA Firearms by themselves, then get a Trust. If only one person wants to use the NFA items, or if that person will always be present when those NFA items are used, then save the $250 and go individual. It really can't be stated simpler than that.
What if, for example, there is another person who lives with you (spouse) who also has access to the NFA item (such as combination to the safe)? Is this considered "access" and they should be a trustee?
Posted on 11/29/16 at 11:45 am to TIGERRVER
The whole spouse thing comes up from time to time but generally with regard to one party in the home being a Prohibited Person (Felon). In that case, they aren't supposed to have the safe combo but that is kind of laughable because all they have to say is "I don't know it." As of now, ATF isn't supposed to waterboard them to find out if they really know it or not. 
"Possession" as it applies to NFA items isn't going to come into play unless they are out of the residence or storage location with the item. Of course, I know guys who leave a silencer in their truck and then the spouse or kid takes the truck out for a spin. That would be a no-no. But leaving it in the safe? Not going to be an issue.
"Possession" as it applies to NFA items isn't going to come into play unless they are out of the residence or storage location with the item. Of course, I know guys who leave a silencer in their truck and then the spouse or kid takes the truck out for a spin. That would be a no-no. But leaving it in the safe? Not going to be an issue.
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