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Message

re: I have met the enemy, and he is us

Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:56 am to
Posted by 34venture
Buffer Zone
Member since Mar 2010
11369 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 8:56 am to
I know, but I am not getting involved in this argument was mainly what I was alluding to.
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
32786 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:00 am to
and people have been bitching about short stopping since it started with Canada geese....

and that was long before most of us were hunting...

but I remember EVERYONE bitching about it in the mid 70s.. of how we "used to have more mallards and some canada geese"

what I remember is some great hunts in the 70s and 80s - but I also remember plenty duds....

I remember have quail though - and we can't blame du or the govnmt for that.... like one of my friends says.. YOU CAN blame united fruit co. for some of that....

animals change and adapt..... Canada Geese are great examples.. when the first europeans came to the US they were marsh birds... now they almost never go to marshes..

so yeah.. it's whiteys fault


for whatever the reasons and they are vast and more complicated than simply blaming DU or subsidies.... migration patterns will continue to evolve and change.. based on habitat and conditions..

heck.. lil choupique and I were talking about this friday night how we came out with one duck once in a very prime spot in PERFECT weather right after a front.... it happens..


one thing i know for sure is plenty hunters up and down the flyway have been throwing tons of money at ducks since we went back to 60 and 6


and.. if you don't understand the impact no till farming has had - you really need to do some reading and learn about it and the changes it has ushered in... if not... you are talking out the side of your neck...

This post was edited on 12/10/13 at 9:01 am
Posted by shooter35
Member since Oct 2011
121 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:00 am to
You can't have it both ways.

What's the difference between spending millions of $$$ putting land in these programs providing "duck habitat" and spending millions building houses and shite providing "people habitat?" (I'm just assuming you'd be against the latter, but maybe I'm wrong)
Posted by Rod Farva
Spurbury, Vermont
Member since Sep 2012
1136 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:01 am to
But what about the heated ponds and/or nets?
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
32786 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:03 am to
quote:

But what about the heated ponds and/or nets?


don't know anything about nets..

but I hunted pheasants in SD and the landowner had a huge pond/lake that had water pumped and kept flowing .... paid for by hunters from chicago...

and they only hunted about 4-5 weekends a year....

I have a pic of pond somewhere.... was in 2002... number of mallards was mind boggling...

like poule d'eau on lake bouef
Posted by shooter35
Member since Oct 2011
121 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:04 am to
quote:

But what about the heated ponds and/or nets?


I'm against the nets but all for the heated ponds.

I tried to cut the nets down once but they were too big.

Then I went to one of them heated ponds thinking I was gonna turn the heater off, realized how nice it was, and jumped right in next to a big group of mallards. Kinda felt like a hot tub.

Eta: I'm all for private citizens spending their money however they wish. But when the government pays for something on someone's private land (whether it be in North Dakota or Louisiana) that's bullshite.
This post was edited on 12/10/13 at 9:06 am
Posted by NicoBlues
I eat frogs
Member since Dec 2009
15048 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:05 am to
quote:

What's the difference between spending millions of $$$ putting land in these programs providing "duck habitat" and spending millions building houses and shite providing "people habitat?" (I'm just assuming you'd be against the latter, but maybe I'm wrong


Oh dear god. So building habitat and breeding grounds for ducks is = to government assistance for the lower class... Damn ducks should get a job and provide their own habitat huh?

Please read Choupiques post and educate yourself. Also good point on no till farming.
Posted by Rod Farva
Spurbury, Vermont
Member since Sep 2012
1136 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:07 am to
Nico, the dude doesn't know shite from shynola.
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
59029 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:07 am to
quote:

Unless someone can convince me why we NEED them, then why not?


Subsidies help a farmer that takes an arse whipping thru no fault of his own, making him less concerned about risk and continues to plant crops. Crops that I and others depend on to live. I like living, therefore I don't mind paying taxes to help insure my living.
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
59029 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:10 am to
quote:

But when the government pays for something on someone's private land (whether it be in North Dakota or Louisiana) that's bullshite.



Does anyone know where I can find the signs we can put on private land so the ducks know to go elsewhere? And when I hunt, I only shoot the ducks that were born and raised on public land. It wouldn't be right to shoot the private land ducks.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
46137 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:12 am to
Why the hate for CRP?

quote:

The Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) is a land conservation program administered by the Farm Service Agency (FSA). In exchange for a yearly rental payment, farmers enrolled in the program agree to remove environmentally sensitive land from agricultural production and plant species that will improve environmental health and quality. Contracts for land enrolled in CRP are 10-15 years in length. The long-term goal of the program is to re-establish valuable land cover to help improve water quality, prevent soil erosion, and reduce loss of wildlife habitat.
Posted by shooter35
Member since Oct 2011
121 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:12 am to
quote:

So building habitat and breeding grounds for ducks is = to government assistance for the lower class..Damn ducks should get a job and provide their own habitat huh?


Money is money. No matter how it's spent.

So duck habitat is more important than assistance for human beings???? Holy frick

You're avoiding the issue. How is the gov spending tax money on private land to only benefit the landowner a good use of my money? Not being a dick. Serious question.


Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
46137 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:13 am to
quote:

to only benefit the landowner


that isn't true...
Posted by shooter35
Member since Oct 2011
121 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:17 am to
quote:

Subsidies help a farmer that takes an arse whipping thru no fault of his own


quote:

I don't mind paying taxes to help insure my living.




But I need healthcare to live so I don't mind paying taxes for it.
Posted by NicoBlues
I eat frogs
Member since Dec 2009
15048 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:22 am to
quote:

So duck habitat is more important than assistance for human beings???? Holy frick


you have to be trolling.. You cant be this retarded and have a computer. Im finished with you.
Posted by shooter35
Member since Oct 2011
121 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:28 am to
quote:

You cant be this retarded and have a computer


Ahhh resort to the ad hominem when you don't have a good argument. Nice.

If you disagree, fine. But I don't believe in tax dollars paying for improvements to someone's private land whether it be trees, solar panels, whatever. That's not what federal tax money was intended for.
Posted by Rod Farva
Spurbury, Vermont
Member since Sep 2012
1136 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:29 am to
Sad thing is, I think he's serious
Posted by Mung
NorCal
Member since Aug 2007
9063 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Why the hate for CRP?


Nobody hates CRP, as we all benefit from it, just not as much as the guy who owns the land and get paid by the gubmint to let it grow up. He can then harvest the timber off it after the gubmint paid him to let it grow. Can't say it isn't gubmint cheese though.
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
32786 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:44 am to
quote:


Nobody hates CRP, as we all benefit from it, just not as much as the guy who owns the land and get paid by the gubmint to let it grow up. He can then harvest the timber off it after the gubmint paid him to let it grow. Can't say it isn't gubmint cheese though.


I know someone in acadia parish that has 850 acres in crp... that NOBODY hunts....
Posted by Palo Gaucho
Benton
Member since Jul 2013
3370 posts
Posted on 12/10/13 at 9:47 am to
This whole discussion has gone to a place where you're just going to go round and round. Neither side of the argument is going to be absolutely right or wrong. In my own experience, as a landowner and a manager of land I have taken advantage of landowner assistance programs, and as long as programs are available, landowners should not be faulted for enrolling in the applicable program. On the flip side, there is waste and people who milk the system.
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