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re: I have a ballistic debate that i need help with....
Posted on 5/19/12 at 8:16 am to Ole Geauxt
Posted on 5/19/12 at 8:16 am to Ole Geauxt
quote:
Remington PSP 150 comes out the barrel on all my deer rifles..
You don't say. I would have never guessed.
2
Posted on 5/19/12 at 8:20 am to BarDTiger81
quote:why's that, Gomer?
I would have never guessed.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 8:36 am to Teague
quote:
Wasted energy. A bullet that mushrooms and increases its surface area expends more of its energy in the animal and has more shock/stopping power.
It's funny that all the bullet manufacturers and hunting comunity would dissagree with you.
Why do you think Barnes x is so poplular? Hornady, Nosler, Win, and Federal all came out with better bullets that stay together.
This is why the smaller calibers are so much better at killing deer.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 9:36 am to Zukitiger
If you guys say so. But, it's simple physics. If a bullet buries 4 inches deep in a tree on the other side of the deer, that's energy that could have been used on the deer.
Which one has more stopping power, a .243 or a 12ga with 000 buck, and why? A jacketed .45 acp or a hollow point .45 acp, and why? Keep in mind the deer aren't wearing kevlar.
IDEALLY, the bullet would just barely make it through the deer, and fall out the other side.
Which one has more stopping power, a .243 or a 12ga with 000 buck, and why? A jacketed .45 acp or a hollow point .45 acp, and why? Keep in mind the deer aren't wearing kevlar.
IDEALLY, the bullet would just barely make it through the deer, and fall out the other side.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 9:39 am to Teague
270 shoots a 130 grain better than a 30 06 shoots a 150 grain.
30 06 shoots a 180 grain better than a 270 shoots a 150 grain.
130 grain is the pefect round for the 270. 150 grain is a waste. Get a bigger gun.
30 06 shoots a 180 grain better than a 270 shoots a 150 grain.
130 grain is the pefect round for the 270. 150 grain is a waste. Get a bigger gun.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:14 am to Teague
On paper this is correct. But when shooting deer, it's not just as simple as energy transfer. Scramble the heart/lungs they will die quicky. Have a good blood trail to follow in case they don't fall right there. I like exit wounds.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:08 am to upgrade
quote:
Scramble the heart/lungs they will die quicky. Have a good blood trail to follow in case they don't fall right there.
Have you ever shot a deer in the heart/lungs with a gun and not passed through with any kind of bullet? I haven't, even with a bow.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:30 am to Teague
Yes. 7 mag. 150gr. core lokt.
Core lokts are supposed to expand well and kill quickly, but I've had a couple not exit.
Core lokts are supposed to expand well and kill quickly, but I've had a couple not exit.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:41 am to Teague
quote:
IDEALLY, the bullet would just barely make it through the deer, and fall out the other side.
I completely dissagree with this. The shock from the speed of the bullet is what kills. Sure an arrow is going slow but it does massive damage with the wide cutting surface of the broadhead.
Yes I have had and seen bullets that break up not pass through the deer. I want a hole on one side and a hole on the other without blowing them in half.
What would you rather have someone stab you in the chest with a knife or shoot you with a .45?
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:46 am to Zukitiger
You guys need to read a physics book and get back to me. There is a lot of misunderstanding and back yard science going on in here.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:50 am to Zukitiger
quote:
The shock from the speed of the bullet is what kills
No.
Wound channels kill.
Destroying vital organs, and blood lose.
This post was edited on 5/19/12 at 11:52 am
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:59 am to upgrade
Putting it where it needs to be is what kills them.
As far as the bullet staying in or coming out deal, meh. I like my bullets to exit because I want a blood trail. Hence my extraordinary hate for the .243
Of course a bullet that stays in puts all it's energy in the deer, so theoretically it should tear up more shite and kill faster. If it doesn't flop right there you will have your work cut out for you though. I want a fully expanded bullet exiting.
For the .270, of course the 130's are very much proven performers and are what the .270 is known for. Nobody will ever argue the decision to shoot 130's.
That said, the federal blue box 150's have the most impressive on-deer performance out of any bullet in any caliber that I have ever seen.
As far as the bullet staying in or coming out deal, meh. I like my bullets to exit because I want a blood trail. Hence my extraordinary hate for the .243
Of course a bullet that stays in puts all it's energy in the deer, so theoretically it should tear up more shite and kill faster. If it doesn't flop right there you will have your work cut out for you though. I want a fully expanded bullet exiting.
For the .270, of course the 130's are very much proven performers and are what the .270 is known for. Nobody will ever argue the decision to shoot 130's.
That said, the federal blue box 150's have the most impressive on-deer performance out of any bullet in any caliber that I have ever seen.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 12:00 pm to upgrade
quote:
Wound channels kill.
Destroying vital organs, and blood lose.
Your reading too much into what I am saying. Of course damage kills but the shock from the bullet is also devastating for the animal. You can kill deer with a 22-250 with a 50gr bullet. Why? Because it's traveling almost 4000fps.
No I'm not physicist but give a a fast gun with a bonded bullet and I can kill damn near every thing that walks.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 1:27 pm to Zukitiger
Teague is correct.
Perfect bullet expends most of it's potential energy inside the target. This is why the 180gr 30-06 is a HORRIBLE whitetail round. It doesn't expend much energy passing through,(unless you somehow made it frangible but that's another discussion) leaves a tiny wound channel and keeps on trucking. Yes on paper it's got more energy, but you have to stop it to transfer it. Lower weight and higher velocity will expend it's potential energy in a shorter distance. It's not carrying enough weight to keep going deep.
Of course there's the opposite problem of a round being too light and too fast stopping too soon. Shoot a big boar through the shoulder with a 4000 fps 45 gr bullet and it's just going to explode on the shield and he's not going down. Shoot him with that slower 180gr and it's gonna jack his arse up.
You just have to tune the bullet to the target animal. For the .270 on whitetails in La, 130gr is optimal.
Perfect bullet expends most of it's potential energy inside the target. This is why the 180gr 30-06 is a HORRIBLE whitetail round. It doesn't expend much energy passing through,(unless you somehow made it frangible but that's another discussion) leaves a tiny wound channel and keeps on trucking. Yes on paper it's got more energy, but you have to stop it to transfer it. Lower weight and higher velocity will expend it's potential energy in a shorter distance. It's not carrying enough weight to keep going deep.
Of course there's the opposite problem of a round being too light and too fast stopping too soon. Shoot a big boar through the shoulder with a 4000 fps 45 gr bullet and it's just going to explode on the shield and he's not going down. Shoot him with that slower 180gr and it's gonna jack his arse up.
You just have to tune the bullet to the target animal. For the .270 on whitetails in La, 130gr is optimal.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 3:21 pm to faxis
each rifle is different. find the bullet YOUR rifle shoots the best, and place that bullet where it belongs.
if you put the bullet where it belongs, 30 grains aint going to make any difference.
if you put the bullet where it belongs, 30 grains aint going to make any difference.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 5:06 pm to faxis
The 270 is kind o my pet round and, once again, I agree with faxis. The 130 is simply the best bullet out of a 270 at intermediate ranges. Most 270s also just shoot them better as well. If your gun shoots 150s well then you won't have any problems. At long ranges however the higher BC of the 150 is going to be superior if your rifle shoots them.
This energy discussion is a different matter all together and it's really a complicated discussion. The new solid and bonded bullet craze, IMHO is wasted on whitetails. They are just easily killed animals. What you want is a happy medium, but honestly I have killed a LOT of deer with both ballistic tips and old tried and true Speer BTs. I like the Speers better. I've been reloading accubonds in my 270 for the past year and killed 4-5 deer with it at ranges from 50-300 yards and they've done well.
This energy discussion is a different matter all together and it's really a complicated discussion. The new solid and bonded bullet craze, IMHO is wasted on whitetails. They are just easily killed animals. What you want is a happy medium, but honestly I have killed a LOT of deer with both ballistic tips and old tried and true Speer BTs. I like the Speers better. I've been reloading accubonds in my 270 for the past year and killed 4-5 deer with it at ranges from 50-300 yards and they've done well.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 5:54 pm to INFIDEL
One thing i do not like is 130gr core locks. My old man had very big problems with them not exiting. Killed the shite out of them but made for a few tough tracking jobs. He switched to federals loaded with 130gr sierra soft points (not sure of the bullet's name) and they did very well, but were also very expensive. He also had good luck with regular ol 130gr winchester power points, but his gun didnt shoot them as well as the other stuff.
Core locks shot the best out of both his and my brothers rifles. The exiting and jacket seperation issues were not worth the slightly better accuracy. Neither of their rifles shoots anything bad. The .270 just seems to be a very forgiving caliber on bullet selection, at least in the 130gr category.
The 150 blue boxes are pretty rediculous though. They shoot well (1.25" groups at 100 yards off bags usually) and are completely brutal on deer. I highly recommend any .270 shooter who can stand to stuff a round nose bullet in their bolt gun try them.
Core locks shot the best out of both his and my brothers rifles. The exiting and jacket seperation issues were not worth the slightly better accuracy. Neither of their rifles shoots anything bad. The .270 just seems to be a very forgiving caliber on bullet selection, at least in the 130gr category.
The 150 blue boxes are pretty rediculous though. They shoot well (1.25" groups at 100 yards off bags usually) and are completely brutal on deer. I highly recommend any .270 shooter who can stand to stuff a round nose bullet in their bolt gun try them.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 5:56 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I shoot the 150 federal fusions out of my 270 and they expand and go out the other side, if the deer doesn't flop, there is buckets of blood until I do find it.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 6:46 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Not a core lokt fan. Really really not a core lokt fan.
Probably the only bullet I would not rocommend despite a rifle shooting them well.
Probably the only bullet I would not rocommend despite a rifle shooting them well.
This post was edited on 5/19/12 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 5/19/12 at 9:23 pm to INFIDEL
Agreed. They seem to always shoot very well but perform poorly in my experience. I cannot deal with a bullet that doesn't exit.
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