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Started By
Message
Hickok45 tests "The Judge"
Posted on 2/21/11 at 7:31 am
Posted on 2/21/11 at 7:31 am
(Disclaimer: I do not own a Judge)
Long video, but worth watching if you have any interest in seeing what the Judge does with various loads, in the way of patterning and some penetration.
LINK
This guy is one of my favorite Youtube guys.
Not a totally scientific test, especially with regards to penetration, but the patterning is particularly interesting.
Alot of the people buying the Judge, are doing so for a couple of reasons.,,
1) The idea that a pattern will make it easier for an awoken shooter to hit a target in the dark, or for a less skilled shooter to hit their target, etc.
2) Dual duty as a snake/trail gun and home defense gun.
What I get from Hickok's testing are a few important points...
*The patterning with lightweight shot, is very broad out past 3 yards. I wouldn't use light shot in this gun, even to shoot at snakes. I think 4shot would be the minimum for me. That will give you decent patterns in close and out to maybe 10 yards. The people that are looking for soft tissue shots with lightweight shot on a home intruder, will not be satisfied with the patterning of anything less than 4shot either, when taken at common room length distances.
*The home defense rounds and 00 and 000 buck rounds appear more than effective at stopping a home intruder to me. HOWEVER... the patterning is TOO TIGHT at close range for those looking for a spread. 7 yards almost looks like a minimum range.
Inside of that, you might as well be tossing .45LC out of this thing, as there just doesn't seem to be enough of a pattern to satisfy that desire. Pretty interesting.
*Hickok's gun in this video was shooting very high, but that really looks like a sighting issue, and not an accuracy one. The .45LC were plenty accurate enough, and when he found how low to hold was banging the long range gong with them well enough for a 3" barrel pistol.
Just an interesting video that I thought I would share. I think for those looking for a patterning pistol, that 4 shot would work best for snakes, and perhaps 4 buck for home defense. If I had one of these, I would have do a realistic assessment of the room dimensions in the parts of my home I might be forced to use it in.
Long video, but worth watching if you have any interest in seeing what the Judge does with various loads, in the way of patterning and some penetration.
LINK
This guy is one of my favorite Youtube guys.
Not a totally scientific test, especially with regards to penetration, but the patterning is particularly interesting.
Alot of the people buying the Judge, are doing so for a couple of reasons.,,
1) The idea that a pattern will make it easier for an awoken shooter to hit a target in the dark, or for a less skilled shooter to hit their target, etc.
2) Dual duty as a snake/trail gun and home defense gun.
What I get from Hickok's testing are a few important points...
*The patterning with lightweight shot, is very broad out past 3 yards. I wouldn't use light shot in this gun, even to shoot at snakes. I think 4shot would be the minimum for me. That will give you decent patterns in close and out to maybe 10 yards. The people that are looking for soft tissue shots with lightweight shot on a home intruder, will not be satisfied with the patterning of anything less than 4shot either, when taken at common room length distances.
*The home defense rounds and 00 and 000 buck rounds appear more than effective at stopping a home intruder to me. HOWEVER... the patterning is TOO TIGHT at close range for those looking for a spread. 7 yards almost looks like a minimum range.
Inside of that, you might as well be tossing .45LC out of this thing, as there just doesn't seem to be enough of a pattern to satisfy that desire. Pretty interesting. *Hickok's gun in this video was shooting very high, but that really looks like a sighting issue, and not an accuracy one. The .45LC were plenty accurate enough, and when he found how low to hold was banging the long range gong with them well enough for a 3" barrel pistol.
Just an interesting video that I thought I would share. I think for those looking for a patterning pistol, that 4 shot would work best for snakes, and perhaps 4 buck for home defense. If I had one of these, I would have do a realistic assessment of the room dimensions in the parts of my home I might be forced to use it in.
This post was edited on 2/21/11 at 7:32 am
5
Posted on 2/21/11 at 7:43 am to coloradoBengal
haven't watched the video, yet, but, your assesment agrees with mine.. I keep #4's in it for the wife, but, you can actually not kill a snake from atop a tractor, shooting 7.5's, pattern too broad...
Posted on 2/21/11 at 9:08 am to coloradoBengal
Did he shoot anyone in the face to gauge reactions?
Posted on 2/21/11 at 9:14 am to coloradoBengal
Going to watch when I get home.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 9:37 am to coloradoBengal
Hickok45 is a great reviewer. the only thing is i have never heard him give something a bad review. He has to at some point come across something he did not like. Maybe he has a video where he does this, but i have not seen it.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 10:10 am to UnevenElephant3
Chuck Hawk -
Chuck Hawk not a fan of the Judge
ETA: I really enjoy Hickock's youtube gun reviews. They are usually very informative.
quote:
I have been asked to do a full review of Taurus .45/.410 revolvers for Guns and Shooting Online, but declined. I simply refuse to waste that much of my time and effort on a product that I already know is inherently incapable of delivering acceptable results. However, in response to popular demand, I agreed to do this abbreviated mini review.
Chuck Hawk not a fan of the Judge
ETA: I really enjoy Hickock's youtube gun reviews. They are usually very informative.
This post was edited on 2/21/11 at 10:12 am
Posted on 2/21/11 at 10:35 am to El Josey Wales
quote:
Chuck Hawk not a fan of the Judge
ETA: I really enjoy Hickock's youtube gun reviews. They are usually very informative.
Anything Chuck Hawk writes, needs to be given some consideration. I don't consider Hickok45's videos really "reviews". He doesn't really rate the weapons, or give a conclusive thumbs up or down, like you'd expect in a traditional review. His vids are more like "range tests", IMHO. And yes, they are always informative.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 10:39 am to El Josey Wales
The Judge has caused the most controversy on the OB in history that's for sure.
I'm not going to participate in this one. I think everyone knows my opinion.
I'm not going to participate in this one. I think everyone knows my opinion.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 10:41 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Hickok45
he's great and very objective
Posted on 2/21/11 at 10:42 am to El Josey Wales
quote:Thanks for that. I now know not to waste my time with his stuff.
I simply refuse to waste that much of my time and effort on a product that I already know is inherently incapable of delivering acceptable results.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 10:55 am to AlxTgr
If you'd read it you'd understand why he says that.
Has to do with the way they do the lands and grooves to accommodate shot shells. It makes an iffy pistol a shitty one.
Has to do with the way they do the lands and grooves to accommodate shot shells. It makes an iffy pistol a shitty one.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 11:28 am to faxis
quote:
it would barely keep its bullets on a humanoid silhouette target at 25 yards!
I could not even manufacture a 25 yard shot in my house.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 11:33 am to AlxTgr
quote:A lot of people would have trouble manufacturing one in their yard.
I could not even manufacture a 25 yard shot in my house.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 11:41 am to coloradoBengal
quote:I can't do it for archery practice.
A lot of people would have trouble manufacturing one in their yard.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 12:17 pm to AlxTgr
Although, I had already decided this gun was insufficent for personal defense, I was still somewhat interested in its abilities and possibly testing it on a live pig.
After watching this I see no reason at all to own the gun. The only reason to have the gun is for the ability to shoot shot shells. Unfortunately, when graduating to a shot size with sufficent energy for "adequate penetration" at a given range, the spread of the now limited number of shot becomes so small that it approaches the limitations of a single projectile.
Simply put the gun fails to adequately achieve functionality based on its design and intended use.
The only functionality it may have an advantage in would be point blank range with shot due to the area of traumatized tissue and the low relative danger of pass through pellets (ie. anti carjacking from drivers side or passenger side if the driver/shooter has a long arm). I would like to see some shielded ballistics gel tests of shot at 3 yrd and less.
(No I would not want to take any of these shots to the face, but given the choice of birdshot to the face vs a JHP 40 cal I'll take the bird shot every day)
After watching this I see no reason at all to own the gun. The only reason to have the gun is for the ability to shoot shot shells. Unfortunately, when graduating to a shot size with sufficent energy for "adequate penetration" at a given range, the spread of the now limited number of shot becomes so small that it approaches the limitations of a single projectile.
Simply put the gun fails to adequately achieve functionality based on its design and intended use.
The only functionality it may have an advantage in would be point blank range with shot due to the area of traumatized tissue and the low relative danger of pass through pellets (ie. anti carjacking from drivers side or passenger side if the driver/shooter has a long arm). I would like to see some shielded ballistics gel tests of shot at 3 yrd and less.
(No I would not want to take any of these shots to the face, but given the choice of birdshot to the face vs a JHP 40 cal I'll take the bird shot every day)
Posted on 2/21/11 at 12:31 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Although, I had already decided this gun was insufficent for personal defense, I was still somewhat interested in its abilities and possibly testing it on a live pig.
After watching this I see no reason at all to own the gun. The only reason to have the gun is for the ability to shoot shot shells. Unfortunately, when graduating to a shot size with sufficent energy for "adequate penetration" at a given range, the spread of the now limited number of shot becomes so small that it approaches the limitations of a single projectile.
Simply put the gun fails to adequately achieve functionality based on its design and intended use.
The only functionality it may have an advantage in would be point blank range with shot due to the area of traumatized tissue and the low relative danger of pass through pellets (ie. anti carjacking from drivers side or passenger side if the driver/shooter has a long arm). I would like to see some shielded ballistics gel tests of shot at 3 yrd and less.
(No I would not want to take any of these shots to the face, but given the choice of birdshot to the face vs a JHP 40 cal I'll take the bird shot every day)
summed it up perfectly...
ok i said i wasn't going to post in this thread....
Posted on 2/21/11 at 12:49 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
The only reason to have the gun is for the ability to shoot shot shells. Unfortunately, when graduating to a shot size with sufficent energy for "adequate penetration" at a given range, the spread of the now limited number of shot becomes so small that it approaches the limitations of a single projectile
This would be a pretty eye opening exercise to do with a shotgun tasked with home defense, wouldn't it? (And I think hickok45 did so here LINK )
Even with an 18inch barrel and a cylinder choke, the spread at those same in the home distances of 3 to 7 yards, the spread is tight enough that you can easily miss with it. Obviously there's a lot more lead in a 20ga or 12ga shell, and its much more powerful than a .410. But its not a magic wand that solves aiming issues.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 12:55 pm to coloradoBengal
quote:
But its not a magic wand that solves aiming issues.
def right about that. It may be a little more "point and shoot" than a .38 revolver but you really do still have to aim. suprisingly that surprises people..haha
main reason I dont like pistol grip pumps for HD. the last thing i was gonna attempt to do everytime i've shot one is aim. reciever to the cheek bone would suck.
This post was edited on 2/21/11 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 2/21/11 at 1:54 pm to coloradoBengal
quote:
Even with an 18inch barrel and a cylinder choke,
Well obviously the premes was that with a very short barrel (3") with rifling, there would be significant spread. Unfortunately, the reduction of power when going to a .410 and a 3" barrel is so severe that increases in individual pellet weight and proximity to the targert are required for lethality. These necessary increases obvioulsy decrease both the size of the spread and the number of pellets in the spread at the given ranges.
Im sure a less than legal 12" barrel 12 gauge with 3 1/2" #4 shot could be downright destructive.
Posted on 2/21/11 at 1:56 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Bleeding purple
To totally hijack this thread, I posted pics of the vines the Mexicans were collecting in the woods that we talked about in the camp design thread.
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