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Started By
Message
re: Cougar comeback
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:15 am to Mung
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:15 am to Mung
quote:
Cougars in Louisiana are protected under state and federal law. Anyone convicted of killing a cougar in Louisiana could face civil restitution of up to $4,351 and federal citations with additional fines and penalties.
In that case I'll buy her a drink instead.
1
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:23 am to VanRIch
quote:
I don't know why but it absolutely blows my mind they've been sighted in Louisiana.
I think I read somewhere that everyone ever captured or killed out of it's range has been a male.
Just an outcast looking to expand territory and they can travel hundreds of miles.
No females have been seen or killed, so there isn't a breeding population.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:26 am to ctiger69
quote:
$4,351
that is a oddly specific number for a fine.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:28 am to Mung
I got attacked by a black panther in Jackson-Bienville. Fortunately I was wearing Kevlar around my neck as teeth couldn't penetrate. I pulled out my 30-06 w4269 with XLT grain whipper bullets and shot it in face and then broke its neck. True story
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:33 am to windshieldman
BiggerBear at least put a picture with his BS story. 
As another poster mentioned, always males seeking out new territory...and pussy.
As another poster mentioned, always males seeking out new territory...and pussy.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:01 am to Mung
Interesting map, but it's very inaccurate. For instance, here in SW Virginia we have had them for several YEARS. Multiple witnesses and game camera photos. I have never understood why game officials from the different states are so reluctant to admit the cats are here and...there.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:29 am to Mung
Didn't know there was such a website as that. Thanks for the link! What is the definition of "confirmed" sighting? If I have seen one and have pics, is that confirmed? I'm not LE or GE, so I guess my sighting and pics don't count? I'm not a veterinarian either, but I do know when a cow has a broke leg. Game officials up here continue to lie about the presence of these big cats. WHAT is their agenda and why do they continue to publicly deny the cats are here? Just asking a rhetorical question...
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:45 am to BFIV
I would guess it needs to be confirmed by some sort of state biologist. That doesn't mean you don't know what you saw, but consider it from the perspective of those biologists who are trying to gather the data. They get false "sightings" all the time that after further investigation turn out to be labs, house cats, bobcats if they're lucky, or a picture from "my buddy's" game camera that they've been emailed from two dozen other buddy's in different places already. Because of that, they are probably very reluctant to call a sighting "confirmed" until they can really confirm it. That may mean coming to your property to look at the area shown in the pictures. I think that leads to lots of folks not wanting to report what they see/have pictures of.
As far as your local guys I have no idea what their agenda might be.
As far as your local guys I have no idea what their agenda might be.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:54 am to Clyde Tipton
quote:
I think I read somewhere that everyone ever captured or killed out of it's range has been a male.
Just an outcast looking to expand territory and they can travel hundreds of miles.
Ive read the same thing. Ive also read where alot of them are confirmed pets that escaped or where released due to lack of natural scars and something about the way their claws and teeth have no damage
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:55 am to ccard257
Here is an article from the Wall Street Journal LINK
that is somewhat informative. And I quote here, directly from the article, the public attitude of Virginia Game and Fish officials, "David Kocka, a Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries biologist who regularly gets cougar reports that don’t pan out, says he sometimes tells callers they probably saw a “U.F.O.—an Unidentified Furry Object.” This is what we are up against here in the Virginia portion of the Appalachian Mountains.
that is somewhat informative. And I quote here, directly from the article, the public attitude of Virginia Game and Fish officials, "David Kocka, a Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries biologist who regularly gets cougar reports that don’t pan out, says he sometimes tells callers they probably saw a “U.F.O.—an Unidentified Furry Object.” This is what we are up against here in the Virginia portion of the Appalachian Mountains.
This post was edited on 11/6/15 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 11/6/15 at 12:12 pm to BFIV
Okay, the WSJ link won't post the entire story, so I copied and pasted it here for anyone who is interested. Kind of a long read, but interesting, nevertheless.
111
A-HED
Eastern Mountain Lions May Be Extinct, but Locals Still See Them
Officials ponder changing cat’s status, causing roar of protest; sighting a ‘U.F.O.’
A Western mountain lion. Wildlife officials say they think sightings in the East have been Western cougars that wandered eastward, freed pets or a Florida panther. ENLARGE
A Western mountain lion. Wildlife officials say they think sightings in the East have been Western cougars that wandered eastward, freed pets or a Florida panther. PHOTO: NATIONAL PARK SERVICE/AP
By JENNIFER LEVITZ
Updated Aug. 28, 2015 3:55 p.m. ET
205 COMMENTS
Diana Marchibroda insists she saw the beast near the Appalachian Trail in Virginia in May. From the woods sauntered a “tall, very sleek” mountain lion, she says. Ms. Marchibroda, a dentist who is 62 years old, says she and her silver-haired miniature schnauzer, Sophie, “both watched in awe.”
“My sighting is ABSOLUTE,” she wrote the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in July. “I know what I saw.”
Dozens of similar missives have poured into the agency as it proposes removing the Eastern mountain lion from the list of endangered species, where it has been since 1973. That change comes because the agency believes the creature no longer exists and would effectively render the subspecies extinct.
The roar of protest is from Easterners who contend the formidable felines still roam forests, fields and backyards from Maine to Georgia.
“There was no mistaking that long tail!” wrote one commenter to the agency in June, about an alleged sighting in New York. “Big as my bike,” promised another about a purported lion in Harrisburg, Pa.
The debate is “sort of in the realm of Bigfoot,” but with more scientific basis, says Noah Charney, an expert animal tracker in Western Massachusetts. The occasional mountain lion is spotted in the East, after wandering in from the West, but it is exceedingly uncommon and officials say people are reporting far more sightings than technically possible.
Also called cougars, pumas and panthers, mountain lions boast impressive tails, buff builds and often tawny-brown coats. They thrive in the West and have expanded eastward in recent decades, breeding in spots like South Dakota, with sightings increasing in the Midwest.
Though scientists debate whether there are genetic differences among subspecies of mountain lions, federal officials say an Eastern branch of the cougar largely disappeared in the 1800s, killed by early settlers defending themselves and their livestock. The agency says the last known Eastern mountain lion was trapped in Maine in 1938.
“We’ve looked and looked,” says Mark McCollough, an endangered species biologist who led the cougar study for the Fish and Wildlife Service, which in June proposed to “delist” the Eastern mountain lion from the roster of endangered species. “This is not something we do gladly or feel good about.”
Taxidermied Eastern mountain lion from 1938
Taxidermied Eastern mountain lion from 1938
This is touchy terrain. The demise of the Eastern cougar is a long-running topic that has stirred a “whole cougar phenomenon” of bloggers, wildlife enthusiasts and even tricksters endeavoring to prove otherwise, says Mr. McCollough.
“I can’t think of any other animal that has captured the imagination of the public in the way that the Eastern cougar has,” he says.
Cougars do show up in the East now and then. But after studying reports going back decades, wildlife officials concluded these sightings were either Western cougars that wandered east, freed exotic pets or a Florida panther.
Confirmed cougar sightings east of the Mississippi River are “quite rare,” happening perhaps every five years, Mr. McCollough says.
Yet, wildlife agencies in the East receive hundreds of reported sightings of mountain lions each year, particularly claims of black panthers, which have never been authenticated in the U.S., the Fish and Wildlife Service said in its review.
The vast majority of sightings turn out to be bobcats, bear, deer, fishers (an animal related to the weasel) or domestic pets, the agency concluded.
David Kocka, a Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries biologist who regularly gets cougar reports that don’t pan out, says he sometimes tells callers they probably saw a “U.F.O.—an Unidentified Furry Object.”
Some people just can’t be convinced that they didn’t see a mountain lion.
“They will not accept that what they saw is a bobcat,” says Patrick Tate, a wildlife biologist with the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department who says he has spent many hours chasing leads never to confirm one sighting.
“People get very upset with the department; they think the department is hiding that the species is here,” he says.
Though most tipsters are sincere, hoaxes run wild, say state officials. Mr. Tate says one photo making the rounds locally appeared to be a stuffed lion placed in the woods. The website of New York State’s Department of Environmental Conservation warns the public about “images of mountain lions circulating online with false claims they were taken in New York.”
“I don’t know why the public is so enamored with the idea of there being mountain lions at large in New York,” says Dan Rosenblatt, head of wildlife diversity at the department.
The state does believe that a cougar that wandered from South Dakota and was hit on a Connecticut highway in 2011 had traveled through New York, he says.
Sargent Collier, shown outside his log cabin, says he saw a mountain lion slink across the road in Peterborough, N.H. ENLARGE
Sargent Collier, shown outside his log cabin, says he saw a mountain lion slink across the road in Peterborough, N.H. PHOTO: SARGENT COLLIER
But typical accounts involve a fast-moving animal that appears much bigger than it is, says Mr. Rosenblatt, adding that biologists have used life-size cardboard cutouts of house cats and bobcats to help eyewitnesses sort out what they saw.
Hundreds of believers, meanwhile, have shared cougar stories on “New Hampshire Mountain Lion,” a blog dedicated to the topic.
There was the “absolutely massive beige cat” along Interstate 95 near Hampton, N.H., watching cars “as if waiting for traffic to die down so it could cross,” and the creature with a fat tail “crouched in a stalking position about 50 feet from my goat pen,” according to two accounts.
“It finally happened!!!!” Sargent Collier, a 74-year-old antique-firearms dealer who lives in a log cabin, wrote on the blog recently about the “big cat” that slinked across the road in Peterborough, N.H. “This ranks up there with the biggest thrills of my life,” he wrote.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service invited public comments on its website through Aug. 17, and expects to rule on the Eastern cougar’s fate by next summer. Removing the subspecies from the endangered-species list would lift federal protections.
Some opponents say that action would be premature, and that Eastern cougars may just be skilled at eluding authorities.
“I am very clear on what I saw,” Thomas Cheney, a 56-year-old technology project manager, wrote the federal agency in July, saying he spied a cougar in Cary, N.C., and alerted the state only to “be condescendingly told I had seen someone’s pet.”
Linda McCracken, 67, of Marlow, N.H., wrote the agency “mountain lions are here…as much as officials don’t want them to be,” and complaining state authorities were wrongly attributing sightings to “even raccoons!”
“NH Fish & Game is telling tales,” she wrote.
111
A-HED
Eastern Mountain Lions May Be Extinct, but Locals Still See Them
Officials ponder changing cat’s status, causing roar of protest; sighting a ‘U.F.O.’
A Western mountain lion. Wildlife officials say they think sightings in the East have been Western cougars that wandered eastward, freed pets or a Florida panther. ENLARGE
A Western mountain lion. Wildlife officials say they think sightings in the East have been Western cougars that wandered eastward, freed pets or a Florida panther. PHOTO: NATIONAL PARK SERVICE/AP
By JENNIFER LEVITZ
Updated Aug. 28, 2015 3:55 p.m. ET
205 COMMENTS
Diana Marchibroda insists she saw the beast near the Appalachian Trail in Virginia in May. From the woods sauntered a “tall, very sleek” mountain lion, she says. Ms. Marchibroda, a dentist who is 62 years old, says she and her silver-haired miniature schnauzer, Sophie, “both watched in awe.”
“My sighting is ABSOLUTE,” she wrote the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in July. “I know what I saw.”
Dozens of similar missives have poured into the agency as it proposes removing the Eastern mountain lion from the list of endangered species, where it has been since 1973. That change comes because the agency believes the creature no longer exists and would effectively render the subspecies extinct.
The roar of protest is from Easterners who contend the formidable felines still roam forests, fields and backyards from Maine to Georgia.
“There was no mistaking that long tail!” wrote one commenter to the agency in June, about an alleged sighting in New York. “Big as my bike,” promised another about a purported lion in Harrisburg, Pa.
The debate is “sort of in the realm of Bigfoot,” but with more scientific basis, says Noah Charney, an expert animal tracker in Western Massachusetts. The occasional mountain lion is spotted in the East, after wandering in from the West, but it is exceedingly uncommon and officials say people are reporting far more sightings than technically possible.
Also called cougars, pumas and panthers, mountain lions boast impressive tails, buff builds and often tawny-brown coats. They thrive in the West and have expanded eastward in recent decades, breeding in spots like South Dakota, with sightings increasing in the Midwest.
Though scientists debate whether there are genetic differences among subspecies of mountain lions, federal officials say an Eastern branch of the cougar largely disappeared in the 1800s, killed by early settlers defending themselves and their livestock. The agency says the last known Eastern mountain lion was trapped in Maine in 1938.
“We’ve looked and looked,” says Mark McCollough, an endangered species biologist who led the cougar study for the Fish and Wildlife Service, which in June proposed to “delist” the Eastern mountain lion from the roster of endangered species. “This is not something we do gladly or feel good about.”
Taxidermied Eastern mountain lion from 1938
Taxidermied Eastern mountain lion from 1938
This is touchy terrain. The demise of the Eastern cougar is a long-running topic that has stirred a “whole cougar phenomenon” of bloggers, wildlife enthusiasts and even tricksters endeavoring to prove otherwise, says Mr. McCollough.
“I can’t think of any other animal that has captured the imagination of the public in the way that the Eastern cougar has,” he says.
Cougars do show up in the East now and then. But after studying reports going back decades, wildlife officials concluded these sightings were either Western cougars that wandered east, freed exotic pets or a Florida panther.
Confirmed cougar sightings east of the Mississippi River are “quite rare,” happening perhaps every five years, Mr. McCollough says.
Yet, wildlife agencies in the East receive hundreds of reported sightings of mountain lions each year, particularly claims of black panthers, which have never been authenticated in the U.S., the Fish and Wildlife Service said in its review.
The vast majority of sightings turn out to be bobcats, bear, deer, fishers (an animal related to the weasel) or domestic pets, the agency concluded.
David Kocka, a Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries biologist who regularly gets cougar reports that don’t pan out, says he sometimes tells callers they probably saw a “U.F.O.—an Unidentified Furry Object.”
Some people just can’t be convinced that they didn’t see a mountain lion.
“They will not accept that what they saw is a bobcat,” says Patrick Tate, a wildlife biologist with the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department who says he has spent many hours chasing leads never to confirm one sighting.
“People get very upset with the department; they think the department is hiding that the species is here,” he says.
Though most tipsters are sincere, hoaxes run wild, say state officials. Mr. Tate says one photo making the rounds locally appeared to be a stuffed lion placed in the woods. The website of New York State’s Department of Environmental Conservation warns the public about “images of mountain lions circulating online with false claims they were taken in New York.”
“I don’t know why the public is so enamored with the idea of there being mountain lions at large in New York,” says Dan Rosenblatt, head of wildlife diversity at the department.
The state does believe that a cougar that wandered from South Dakota and was hit on a Connecticut highway in 2011 had traveled through New York, he says.
Sargent Collier, shown outside his log cabin, says he saw a mountain lion slink across the road in Peterborough, N.H. ENLARGE
Sargent Collier, shown outside his log cabin, says he saw a mountain lion slink across the road in Peterborough, N.H. PHOTO: SARGENT COLLIER
But typical accounts involve a fast-moving animal that appears much bigger than it is, says Mr. Rosenblatt, adding that biologists have used life-size cardboard cutouts of house cats and bobcats to help eyewitnesses sort out what they saw.
Hundreds of believers, meanwhile, have shared cougar stories on “New Hampshire Mountain Lion,” a blog dedicated to the topic.
There was the “absolutely massive beige cat” along Interstate 95 near Hampton, N.H., watching cars “as if waiting for traffic to die down so it could cross,” and the creature with a fat tail “crouched in a stalking position about 50 feet from my goat pen,” according to two accounts.
“It finally happened!!!!” Sargent Collier, a 74-year-old antique-firearms dealer who lives in a log cabin, wrote on the blog recently about the “big cat” that slinked across the road in Peterborough, N.H. “This ranks up there with the biggest thrills of my life,” he wrote.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service invited public comments on its website through Aug. 17, and expects to rule on the Eastern cougar’s fate by next summer. Removing the subspecies from the endangered-species list would lift federal protections.
Some opponents say that action would be premature, and that Eastern cougars may just be skilled at eluding authorities.
“I am very clear on what I saw,” Thomas Cheney, a 56-year-old technology project manager, wrote the federal agency in July, saying he spied a cougar in Cary, N.C., and alerted the state only to “be condescendingly told I had seen someone’s pet.”
Linda McCracken, 67, of Marlow, N.H., wrote the agency “mountain lions are here…as much as officials don’t want them to be,” and complaining state authorities were wrongly attributing sightings to “even raccoons!”
“NH Fish & Game is telling tales,” she wrote.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 12:59 pm to Rosco P Coletrain
quote:
confirmed pets that escaped
the one from Lake Charles had been declawed, so had to be a pet.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 1:02 pm to BFIV
if you consider how many people swear they saw a black panther, something that does not exist in the US, then you can understand their skepticism. Reading that cougar network, they seem to require DNA evidence, from scat, hair or some tracks, maybe with a game cam pic where the location is easily verifiable. Lots of hoaxsters out there.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 7:42 pm to Mung
If I was as rich as Nascar and Geauxt, I'd shoot one here on Clinch Mountain, call Green Jeans to come see it, give him the $4,351.00 for the fine and say, "THERE'S your confirmation." 
Posted on 11/6/15 at 8:59 pm to dat yat
quote:
I don't believe that, I believe there are some outdoorsmen with bad eyesight
Well that was before my lasic sooo maybe you're right.
I completely get the skepticism and probably wouldn't believe me either.
But it was a half mile from a road in broad daylight. 6 guys all agreed it wasn't a bobcat. But who knows. I guess it could've been a very large, very dark colored bobcat
Eta - the color could've been distorted due to shadows. The size is accurate.
This post was edited on 11/6/15 at 9:03 pm
Posted on 11/7/15 at 5:09 am to SportTiger1
There have been cougars in our area since I was kid. I've seen them, their tracks and their kills.
Posted on 11/7/15 at 8:46 am to BFIV
quote:
“U.F.O.—an Unidentified Furry Object.”
Damn hillbillies hitting the shine again
Posted on 11/7/15 at 9:51 am to offshoretrash
I ran into a western cougar back in the early 90's. She liked vodka tonics and just needed someone to listen. I provided both and in return she taught me things........
I like western cougars
I like western cougars
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