re: Baited fields and Extension Service recommendations; federal court decision out of LA

quote:

---

And if he's not basing his recommendations on the Cooperative Extension Service guidance, that defense would probably amount to zilch. The regs clearly say CES, not wildlife agency.

---

Considering the state of MS has a brochure out that speaks to the legality of dove fields, I think I’m going to trust the agent.

MDWFP dove field prep

quote:

---

Considering the state of MS has a brochure out that speaks to the legality of dove fields, I think I’m going to trust the agent.

---

Ok. There are state and even federal agencies that don't follow laws the way they should, and I doubt MDWFP is any different. Hell, they apparently tell people that you can't plant any more than 90 lbs/acre wheat. Yet, according to the case in the OP, MCES says no more than 120 lbs/ac. So their recommendations clearly aren't in alignment with MCES.

The fact is, the plain language of the law says "Cooperative Extension Service", and that's what matters in a court of law. If the MDWFP agent recommendations aren't in accordance with the CES, then he's going to be just as guilty as anyone he advised.

quote:

---

And if he's not basing his recommendations on the Cooperative Extension Service guidance, that defense would probably amount to zilch.

The regs clearly say CES, not wildlife agency.

---

In the pamphlet that was referenced in the case about MS Coop Extension pamphlet the last sentence for Dove states

"However, consulting with wildlife biologists or enforcement officers helps avoid illegal field situations.
"

I would say that the Cooperative Ext service is punting the final decision to the MS Game and Field.

quote:

---

It ain't sporty to shoot dove over bait but it is done on a huge scale

---

It’s not sustainable to hunt over bait (if it was legal, everybody would do it, and it would make an impact). But how is shooting doves over bait any less sporty than shooting them in a natural setting?

Most of these laws were created in 1918 to combat market hunting.

I would like to see research where allowing baiting such as chops, sunflowers to be spread to entice birds would have much impact.

Limit is still the same, and lets be honest how many do not get limits?

It would just make it easier on the hunters to prepare a field.

Imagine having a long strip a football field wild and 500 yards long, and having a crop duster come and drop a mixture of chops, sunflowers and wheat over it in one pass, and be done with preparing a dove field.

quote:

---

I really dont care who baits or what is baiting, but just take the ticket if you get it and move on. Taking up time and other bullshite claiming you are a wheat farmer is just nuts to me.

---

You don't have to be a wheat "farmer" for it to be allowed.

Can be for a food plot, can be for your 2 horses or cow, can be because you have spots in your field that is washing out.

quote:

---

If you don’t have a cow then it’s hard to say you are planting it for ag purposes. They are “planting” for the sole purpose of attracting doves and in my opinion should not be allowed No one in their right mind is going to plant a food plot of wheat in august either.

---

He was technically grazing deer on his.

You will start seeing fields disc for wheat in a few weeks in MS. Maybe not south MS but Central up, there will be plenty.

I wait on my deer plots until the army worms are gone.

quote:

---

And the cooperative Ext Service clearly states multiple time that if you have any questions about the legality of a field you need to call and ask the MDWFP.

---

Yeah, because CES is not regulatory; MDWFP is, which is why legality questions would be directed to them. It's not that hard to figure this out. Basing a decision of legality on what MDWFP says may hold up in court, but most likely would not because the plain language says "Cooperative Extension Service". If MDWFP is saying something is legal that is contrary to guidance from the CES, the law requires that CES guidance be followed. Words matter in a court of law.

And just because something has been done for years doesn't mean it's correct or lawful. I've seen plenty of case studies involving federal laws where one of the parties tried to argue that "it had always been done that way" or "it may be contrary, but this is what I was told".

Neither of those defenses ever works.

All we have to do is look at this specific case. The defendant followed guidance of the CES. But the judge argued that it had to be the state-specific CES.

quote:

---

Yeah, because CES is not regulatory; MDWFP is, which is why legality questions would be directed to them. It's not that hard to figure this out. Basing a decision of legality on what MDWFP says may hold up in court, but most likely would not because the plain language says "Cooperative Extension Service". If MDWFP is saying something is legal that is contrary to guidance from the CES, the law requires that CES guidance be followed. Words matter in a court of law.

And just because something has been done for years doesn't mean it's correct or lawful. I've seen plenty of case studies involving federal laws where one of the parties tried to argue that "it had always been done that way" or "it may be contrary, but this is what I was told".

Neither of those defenses ever works.

All we have to do is look at this specific case. The defendant followed guidance of the CES. But the judge argued that it had to be the state-specific CES.

---

Alabama may do the best job of defining it. Read up boys.

AL dove

"However, fall or winter plantings of wheat for agricultural purposes, wildlife food plots (for deer, turkey, or other species, but not doves), or as soil cover crops often provide excellent dove hunting opportunities and are legal to hunt. The timing, rate, and method of planting wheat will vary depending on the objectives for its establishment. Generally, the periods for planting fall and winter wheat range from August 1 to November 30 but often depend on soil and moisture conditions. When wheat is planted as a wildlife food plot, cover crop, agricultural crop, or to supplement livestock grazing, it may be used as follows:

Planted into a seedbed that has not been tilled. Recommended practices for planting into an unprepared seedbed include using a no-till drill, broadcasting seeds into cotton stubble that remains after harvest followed by mowing the cotton stubble, and aerial seeding into standing crops, such as cotton or soybeans, prior to defoliation or leaf drop.

Planted into a prepared seedbed by drilling or broadcasting followed by cultipacking, disking, raking, etc., to cover the seed. Some incidental seed will remain on the surface when these methods are used to plant wheat.

Top sown to establish a cover crop in low-input management systems. Growers should be aware that the risks associated with this practice are higher than the risks associated with drilling or other methods that cover the seed. This planting practice requires a well-prepared seedbed. A well-prepared seedbed involves adequate tilling of the soil so when the seeds are planted there will be good soil-to-seed contact and the soil will not be excessively hard (i.e., it can easily be penetrated by the developing root of the germinating seed). No more than 200 pounds per acre should be used when top sowing of wheat is done to establish a cover crop to prevent soil erosion.
Occasionally, narrow strips of wheat are planted as fire breaks, for erosion control on contours and drainage areas, and as wildlife food plots. Staggered planting dates of wheat strips in wildlife food plots may increase germination, palatability, survival, and additional benefits to wildlife species that utilize these habitats as part of their life cycle. When planted in a manner consistent with normal agricultural practices, this approach can provide excellent results for their intended purposes of erosion control and wildlife habitat. Hunting in areas prepared in the manner outlined in this paragraph is legal.

However, it is generally NOT a normal agricultural practice when planting wheat to do the following:

Sow seeds several times in succession on the same ground unless there is a valid reason, such as drought or flooding, to do so.Pile, clump, or concentrate wheat seed on the ground. Wheat seed must be spread evenly across the entire planting area.
Areas where the above have occurred may very likely be illegal to hunt doves. Keep in mind that other types of seed such as millets, sunflower, milo, and corn are normally covered with soil after planting and, therefore, should not be top sown. Moreover, these seeds are normally planted in the spring or summer, not in the fall when dove season occurs."

quote:

---

But how is shooting doves over bait any less sporty than shooting them in a natural setting?

---

How sporty is shooting squirrels off your bird feeder vs hunting them in a WMA?