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Is the Integrity of the Well Failing?
Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:42 pm
Posted on 6/16/10 at 4:42 pm
Just read an article that says that we are in a race against time to get the relief wells operational before the entire well collapses and sends up to 150,000 barrels of oil per day into the Gulf until the well drains out.
LINK
I have no idea if what this guy is saying is legit or not, so I thought I would ask the experts here what they think.
If this is right, we are in serious trouble.
LINK
I have no idea if what this guy is saying is legit or not, so I thought I would ask the experts here what they think.
If this is right, we are in serious trouble.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 5:08 pm to AlaTiger
Sorry. I thought it was the same hogwash as the other article.
This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 6:42 pm
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:13 pm to notiger1997
The other thread was about the floor of the Gulf cracking. I thought that this was a different subject. Any opinions?
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:38 pm to AlaTiger
I have seen them following hoses that are laid out on the gulf floor that are covered with dust. The hoses are used to carry the dispersants. Until the get to the skid you can't really tell if it is a hose or a long crack. ????
I do see Viking Poseidon – ROV 2 near the floor of the gulf and there is a constant flow of either sediment or oil billowing around. The ROV followed a rope and then the rope went over some sort of hose. ROV Hose??? The hose went to something well off the gulf floor and it was holding the rope off the bottom where they intersected.
No idea what this means. Don't know if the ROV is the one stirring up the bottom. It is just staying there among all the "smoke"!
I do see Viking Poseidon – ROV 2 near the floor of the gulf and there is a constant flow of either sediment or oil billowing around. The ROV followed a rope and then the rope went over some sort of hose. ROV Hose??? The hose went to something well off the gulf floor and it was holding the rope off the bottom where they intersected.
No idea what this means. Don't know if the ROV is the one stirring up the bottom. It is just staying there among all the "smoke"!
Posted on 6/16/10 at 6:51 pm to notiger1997
terifying indeed
This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 6/16/10 at 7:47 pm to dreaux
i think they say the bigger problem is the casing is blown out of the hole. there is no way to plug it, even the relief wells will not work. there is no way to seal the hole without the casing.
people are saying you have to nuke it. melt the rock and it turns to glass, sealing the hole. russians did it 4 times in 70s to contain submerged wells.
people are saying you have to nuke it. melt the rock and it turns to glass, sealing the hole. russians did it 4 times in 70s to contain submerged wells.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 8:49 pm to Bwana Whiskey
That was a pretty good article. Thanks
Hope it is dead wrong.


Hope it is dead wrong.

This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 6/16/10 at 9:13 pm to Bwana Whiskey
Not a pro here by any means, but why wouldn't they be able to seal it even if the casing is blown out, as long as there's not something the other side of cataclysmic damage way down there. I'm not buying there being that much damage for an entire 2 miles worth of pipe, and barring a Grand Canyon sized crater, it seems like pumping a shite load of mud from the bottom into the hole would work anyway. Stop the flow at the bottom, and then fill from the top with the Great Wall of China.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 9:33 pm to Bwana Whiskey
quote:
russians did it 4 times in 70s to contain submerged wells.
no
those were surface wells not subsea wells 5000 ft below the water surface
Posted on 6/16/10 at 9:37 pm to GM4UA
quote:
I'm not buying there being that much damage for an entire 2 miles worth of pipe, and barring a Grand Canyon sized crater, it seems like pumping a shite load of mud from the bottom into the hole would work anyway. Stop the flow at the bottom, and then fill from the top with the Great Wall of China.
what the article is saying is the bottom hole is not where the well is flowing, it is flowing from a hole in ruptured casing
so pumping mud into the well just pushed the mud into the formation through the ruptured casing and it came right back out. if they had cranked up the pressure on the mud pumps to try to overcome the flowing pressure they felt like they could have ruptured the broken casing even further, made the casing holes even bigger and unleashed the full fury of the formation. sort of like popping a pimple gently then squeezing it so hard you tear the skin and make it an open wound
it isnt flowing from the bottom hole up through the casing, it is flowing through broken casing in more than one spot
so the relief wells may not work either because they wont be able to plug the well through the bottom hole because it will continue to flow through the other fractures in the casing
This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 6/16/10 at 9:47 pm to supatigah
quote:
it will continue to flow through the other fractures in the casing
why wouldn't the mud/cement fill the casing? Sorry I think this is a y2k scenario. Not buying it.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 9:59 pm to C
The top kill didn't work because the riser was leaking above the top of the BOP. You can't pump against pressure with what essentially is an open valve. The junk shot was done hoping to seal off the riser.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:00 pm to supatigah
I an not the know it all end all of this by a long shot, but here is my uneducated in these matters take on the situation.
Bottom kill will work either way. The well pipe is small. The velocity through the pipe is greater than the flow through pipe and around or through the casing given the same barrels per day. Just like if you have 1k barrels a day through a 1 inch pipe the velocity is higher than the same barrels per day through a 21 inch pipe.
When they pump mud and or concrete the larger route doesn't seem to be a problem to me. The mud/cement should be able to flow just as easily through both routes right?
Right now the flow into the earth is limited. So putting cement into the well at the bottom should be able to cement in the rupture and the surrounding ground while the well itself keeps blowing. So I don't see how quickset concrete wouldn't be able to plug the routes outside of the rupture. It won't seal it completely as the pressure of the oil will work its way around the cement. But you don't need to seal it complete right anyway.
Now even before the flow through the rupture is slowed I doubt that is even a needed step. The You have two miles of channel and or pipe through the earth from the reservoir to the gulf floor. All you have to do is fill it up with mud. You don't even need to overcome the flow of oil like you do with the top kill. All you have to do is replace it with mud.
Think about it. If the mud fills up the well that is exactly what we had pre drilling operations. The oil is contained by the earth above it. Fill it up with mud and the weight simply keeps it in just like it did before the well was ever drilled.
If you think I am missing some aspect of this let me know. The only flaw I could imagine is if the flow of mud can't be put in both the well and any channels the might be outside the drill pipe were the drill mets the current well. Why would this be the case???
And even if it was why couldn't they simply drill into the reservoir and near the end of the well and as you move away from the suction point of the well the flow gets slower just like the further you get from the water going down your tub is slower away from the drain. Pump the cement there maybe in multiple places which they have the capability to do from a single drill rig and then the cement can solidify and plug the well outside the actual well hole itself.
Wells usually plug up on their own and it takes work for the oil companies to keep them going. It is yet another stroke of bad luck for us that this hasn't happened to this well already.
The first well to ever be dug in Louisiana plugged up almost immediately and had to be abandoned.
Bottom kill will work either way. The well pipe is small. The velocity through the pipe is greater than the flow through pipe and around or through the casing given the same barrels per day. Just like if you have 1k barrels a day through a 1 inch pipe the velocity is higher than the same barrels per day through a 21 inch pipe.
When they pump mud and or concrete the larger route doesn't seem to be a problem to me. The mud/cement should be able to flow just as easily through both routes right?
Right now the flow into the earth is limited. So putting cement into the well at the bottom should be able to cement in the rupture and the surrounding ground while the well itself keeps blowing. So I don't see how quickset concrete wouldn't be able to plug the routes outside of the rupture. It won't seal it completely as the pressure of the oil will work its way around the cement. But you don't need to seal it complete right anyway.
Now even before the flow through the rupture is slowed I doubt that is even a needed step. The You have two miles of channel and or pipe through the earth from the reservoir to the gulf floor. All you have to do is fill it up with mud. You don't even need to overcome the flow of oil like you do with the top kill. All you have to do is replace it with mud.
Think about it. If the mud fills up the well that is exactly what we had pre drilling operations. The oil is contained by the earth above it. Fill it up with mud and the weight simply keeps it in just like it did before the well was ever drilled.
If you think I am missing some aspect of this let me know. The only flaw I could imagine is if the flow of mud can't be put in both the well and any channels the might be outside the drill pipe were the drill mets the current well. Why would this be the case???
And even if it was why couldn't they simply drill into the reservoir and near the end of the well and as you move away from the suction point of the well the flow gets slower just like the further you get from the water going down your tub is slower away from the drain. Pump the cement there maybe in multiple places which they have the capability to do from a single drill rig and then the cement can solidify and plug the well outside the actual well hole itself.
Wells usually plug up on their own and it takes work for the oil companies to keep them going. It is yet another stroke of bad luck for us that this hasn't happened to this well already.
The first well to ever be dug in Louisiana plugged up almost immediately and had to be abandoned.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:04 pm to supatigah
quote:
those were surface wells not subsea wells 5000 ft below the water surface
Agree. I am about ready to kill the person who first wrote about using the Russian method to fix this leak. It has been repeated so many times now that people take it as fact that the situations are the same.
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:05 pm to C
quote:
why wouldn't the mud/cement fill the casing? Sorry I think this is a y2k scenario. Not buying it.
there isnt one bottom hole to fill, the formation is flowing up the casing through more than one hole
pumping the mud into the compromised well bore means the mud never got to the bottom hole, it just flowed into the formation through the compromised casing
then flowed right back out
the entire premise of the top kill was to smother the bottom hole with mud weight. under his scenario and analysis the mud never got to the bottom hole and pushing harder with the mud pumps could have made the hole in the compromised casing even larger and caused the entire well bore to collapse opening up a gushing wound
this isnt a y2k scenario, if he right this is a worst case scenario
and all the stuff he says about erosion of the well bore eventaully causing the well structure to collapse is dead on
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:10 pm to omegaman66
Don't over complicate this. You have to overcome pressure with greater pressure. The mud never gets to the bottom. The casing is not parted or split downhole. the gas and oil are channeling between the liner and intermediate string and out the top of the BOP.
This post was edited on 6/16/10 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:11 pm to Eauxkie Tiger
So is he saying Oil is leaking into the seabed around the well?
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:24 pm to omegaman66
a well bore is like a series of diminishing straws that diminish down to a needle to puncture a boil filled with oil. So the tip of the needle is a 3ft by 3ft opening into a rock formation under INTENSE pressure. Flow is controlled by managing the 3ft by 3ft area at the point of the needle
under his analysis the 3ft by 3ft area has been compromised and there are now more than one "needle" in the boil. oil is flowing into damaged casing from multiple "needles". So going into the 3ft by 3ft bottom hole from another "needle" is not going to stop the well because there are other ruptures ABOVE it that will just continue to flow.
your "cement" theory is missing several key elements. the first is the current environment is not conducive to setting cement that will hold. The next flaw is setting the cement in a damaged well bore (and pinching flow creating more pressure) could cause the flow to destroy what is left of the wellbore and rip the whole thing open. Third by pumping cement into the formation through the multiple fractures in the casing you will cause the formation to find the path of least resistance by channeling it where ever it can find release. which could by pass trhe casing completely and just flow straight up the weakened well bore outside of the casing. This is what he is talking about when he says be afraid of oil leaking out from under the BOP
under his analysis the 3ft by 3ft area has been compromised and there are now more than one "needle" in the boil. oil is flowing into damaged casing from multiple "needles". So going into the 3ft by 3ft bottom hole from another "needle" is not going to stop the well because there are other ruptures ABOVE it that will just continue to flow.
your "cement" theory is missing several key elements. the first is the current environment is not conducive to setting cement that will hold. The next flaw is setting the cement in a damaged well bore (and pinching flow creating more pressure) could cause the flow to destroy what is left of the wellbore and rip the whole thing open. Third by pumping cement into the formation through the multiple fractures in the casing you will cause the formation to find the path of least resistance by channeling it where ever it can find release. which could by pass trhe casing completely and just flow straight up the weakened well bore outside of the casing. This is what he is talking about when he says be afraid of oil leaking out from under the BOP
Posted on 6/16/10 at 10:26 pm to Impotent Waffle
I didn't read the article but you really think the well could naturally fracture 13,000 feet of sediment? If the well had that much pressure oil would be shooting out of the water like a geyser. It would without a doubt be the highest pressure well in the entire world!
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