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Started By
Message
WWII Questions about the ETO in fall of '44.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:11 pm
I am sure that this is the place for some answers. Working on a project.
Market Garden was in Sept and failed Sept 25.
Battle of the Bulge was Dec 16.
Between that period our Boys went through the Thanksgiving Holiday period of Nov.
My question or questions is:
After Market Garden, how much activity went on?
Did the battle lines and/or map change any during this period of time?
Did US forces move forward? IF so, where and how far?
I am coming to the experts of this field here in TD and I know that I won't be disappointed.
Thank You.
Market Garden was in Sept and failed Sept 25.
Battle of the Bulge was Dec 16.
Between that period our Boys went through the Thanksgiving Holiday period of Nov.
My question or questions is:
After Market Garden, how much activity went on?
Did the battle lines and/or map change any during this period of time?
Did US forces move forward? IF so, where and how far?
I am coming to the experts of this field here in TD and I know that I won't be disappointed.
Thank You.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 2:12 pm
11
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:13 pm to WWII Collector
paging Darth.....
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:13 pm to WWII Collector
Battle of the Hurtgen Forrest
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:20 pm to WWII Collector
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:22 pm to WWII Collector
quote:
After Market Garden, how much activity went on?
Did the battle lines and/or map change any during this period of time?
Did US forces move forward? IF so, where and how far?
So after Market-Garden came to an end, the Allies began to consolidate their lines in Belgium and France in preparation for a massive offensive into Germany in the spring of 1945. There were minor actions, of course, along the front and some larger ones (particularly Patton's drive on the city of Metz and the actions within the Hürtgen Forest). However, at the operational and strategic level, things were relatively stable on the Western Front from the end of Market-Garden to the start of Germany's surprise offensive into the Ardennes Forest in December.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:25 pm to WWII Collector
No maps at OnWar, but a near daily timeline.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:27 pm to WWII Collector
IMHO, the front lines did not change much between 30 Sep 33 and 16 Dec 44, but the British did make some gains in Holland and the Scheldt Estuary.
During that appx 2 month period, the Allied Logistical system was changing from the truck-based "Red Ball Express" to a more traditional Railroad system. It took some time to re-build the destroyed railroad net in France and Belgium.
There was fighting in the Hurtgen Forest, but, the territorial gains were more modest than what we saw during the Breakout and Pursuit phase.
The Allied forces were repairing the railroad net, preparing adequate air fields for the air forces, building up supply depots and the like.
It was, as you have observed, a period of an operational pause, compared to the Breakout and Pursuit phase.
During that appx 2 month period, the Allied Logistical system was changing from the truck-based "Red Ball Express" to a more traditional Railroad system. It took some time to re-build the destroyed railroad net in France and Belgium.
There was fighting in the Hurtgen Forest, but, the territorial gains were more modest than what we saw during the Breakout and Pursuit phase.
The Allied forces were repairing the railroad net, preparing adequate air fields for the air forces, building up supply depots and the like.
It was, as you have observed, a period of an operational pause, compared to the Breakout and Pursuit phase.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:29 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
(particularly Patton's drive on the city of Metz
Yes, I forgot to mention the Patton's fighting in Alsace-Lorraine. There was some maneuver war there.
Wiki says that the Battle of Nancy was over by the end of Sept 44. I don't think that the front line moved much at all after that until 16 Dec 44 (Bulge).
This post was edited on 3/22/25 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:41 pm to WWII Collector
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:42 pm to Champagne
The 101st Airborne was in Champaign France for rest and refit.
They were also preparing for a football game dubbed "the Champaign Bowl" on Christmas day. The Germans ruined those plans.
They were also preparing for a football game dubbed "the Champaign Bowl" on Christmas day. The Germans ruined those plans.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:49 pm to WWII Collector
According to ChatGPT
Following the conclusion of Operation Market Garden in late September 1944, the Allied forces continued their offensive operations along the Western Front, encountering both successes and challenges.?
Pritzker Military Museum & Library
Post-Market Garden Activities:
Battle of Aachen: In October 1944, U.S. forces engaged in intense urban combat to capture the German city of Aachen. This battle marked one of the first major assaults on German soil and resulted in the city's capture after heavy casualties on both sides. ?
Wikipedia
Battle of Hürtgen Forest: Starting in September and extending over several months, American forces attempted to breach German defenses in the Hürtgen Forest. The dense terrain and fortified German positions led to prolonged and costly engagements. ?
Changes in Battle Lines and Advances:
Advances in Lorraine: The U.S. Third Army, under General George S. Patton, conducted operations in the Lorraine region of France from September to December 1944. Despite logistical challenges and stiff German resistance, they managed to push forward, capturing key locations and inflicting significant enemy casualties. ?
Wikipedia
Siegfried Line Engagements: Allied forces confronted the formidable German defensive network known as the Siegfried Line. Operations during this period aimed to penetrate these defenses, leading to several hard-fought battles with varying degrees of success. ?
Overall Progress:
Between late September and mid-December 1944, the Allies made measured progress into German-held territories. While they faced formidable defenses and challenging terrain, their persistent efforts resulted in the gradual erosion of German positions, setting the stage for subsequent offensives.
Darth can probably give you a better summary.
Following the conclusion of Operation Market Garden in late September 1944, the Allied forces continued their offensive operations along the Western Front, encountering both successes and challenges.?
Pritzker Military Museum & Library
Post-Market Garden Activities:
Battle of Aachen: In October 1944, U.S. forces engaged in intense urban combat to capture the German city of Aachen. This battle marked one of the first major assaults on German soil and resulted in the city's capture after heavy casualties on both sides. ?
Wikipedia
Battle of Hürtgen Forest: Starting in September and extending over several months, American forces attempted to breach German defenses in the Hürtgen Forest. The dense terrain and fortified German positions led to prolonged and costly engagements. ?
Changes in Battle Lines and Advances:
Advances in Lorraine: The U.S. Third Army, under General George S. Patton, conducted operations in the Lorraine region of France from September to December 1944. Despite logistical challenges and stiff German resistance, they managed to push forward, capturing key locations and inflicting significant enemy casualties. ?
Wikipedia
Siegfried Line Engagements: Allied forces confronted the formidable German defensive network known as the Siegfried Line. Operations during this period aimed to penetrate these defenses, leading to several hard-fought battles with varying degrees of success. ?
Overall Progress:
Between late September and mid-December 1944, the Allies made measured progress into German-held territories. While they faced formidable defenses and challenging terrain, their persistent efforts resulted in the gradual erosion of German positions, setting the stage for subsequent offensives.
Darth can probably give you a better summary.
This post was edited on 3/21/25 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:55 pm to RollTide1987
The Canadian First Army cleared the Scheldt Estuary, which opened up the port of Antwerp.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 2:59 pm to WWII Collector
Some grueling fights took place as we moved into Germany. While Fury has a lot of inaccuracies, the grind that the soldiers found themselves in was accurate. There are many books that cover this time period that show how rough it was. I just finished a two book set about the Fourth Armored Division, and a book of an soldier who was armored infantry in the Second Armored, and I not expecting the level of fight that remained in the Germans.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 3:01 pm to Jim Rockford
Should have been cleared before, or at a minimum during, the advance on Antwerp.
Another Montgomery failure as the city/port itself was taken very easily.
Another Montgomery failure as the city/port itself was taken very easily.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 3:02 pm to HeadCall
quote:
Battle of the Hurtgen Forrest
Utterly useless waste of life and resources.
Posted on 3/21/25 at 3:29 pm to WWII Collector
quote:
Did US forces move forward? IF so, where and how far?
Move forward: Yes
how far: not Berlin
Posted on 3/21/25 at 3:32 pm to WWII Collector
Go watch Indy Nidel’s YouTube series on WWII.
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