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re: WSJ "Article" Blames men for dating problems.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:06 pm to OceanTiger83
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:06 pm to OceanTiger83
quote:
As a 39 year old man if I were to date a woman in their late 30's or early 40's I'm guessing their expectation would be I would've already been in probably 5 - 7 significant relationships in my lifetime. If I tell them "yeah I've only been in 2 significant relationships and I haven't been in a serious relationship is over 10 years" I feel like that will be multiple huge red flags for them and will be used against me.
I wouldn't be worried so much about her expectations man. Have your own expectations for her.
I'm no Cassanova but I know that you want to be the one asking the questions, and most of the time the women are all too eager to talk about themselves.
0
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:07 pm to OceanTiger83
Another thing I've noticed with Gen Z women. They truly do travel in packs now.
When I was in my 20's and would go to bars/clubs yes you would see groups of women (anywhere from 5 - 10 women) but you also saw a fair amount of women where maybe it was just them or just them and 1 or 2 friends. With Gen Z though you just don't see that anymore. It seems like the women are always in big groups of 5 - 10 or even up to 15.
For a lot of men it's one thing to approach a woman with 1 or 2 friends. You don't have the intimidation factor and it's more low key. It's a lot harder to approach a woman when she's surrounded by 10 of her friends, at least a few of which are probably taking pride in being the cock blockers.
It's also been studied that Gen Z women are far less likely to leave their own group. So even when they go out to bars and clubs they are in their group and strongly sticking to it.
When I was in my 20's and would go to bars/clubs yes you would see groups of women (anywhere from 5 - 10 women) but you also saw a fair amount of women where maybe it was just them or just them and 1 or 2 friends. With Gen Z though you just don't see that anymore. It seems like the women are always in big groups of 5 - 10 or even up to 15.
For a lot of men it's one thing to approach a woman with 1 or 2 friends. You don't have the intimidation factor and it's more low key. It's a lot harder to approach a woman when she's surrounded by 10 of her friends, at least a few of which are probably taking pride in being the cock blockers.
It's also been studied that Gen Z women are far less likely to leave their own group. So even when they go out to bars and clubs they are in their group and strongly sticking to it.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:11 pm to OceanTiger83
Because they have them so scared now
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:11 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is why there is data showing how little sex kids are having these days. It's not just that women are only sleeping with that top tier, it's that they simply won't have sex unless it's with that top tier.
This makes a lot of sense, and I would agree.
However, I think the same thing is happening on the male side as well, or the men are very clearly blowing off the women they aren’t interested in.
So the obese high school graduate woman in her late 20s or early 30s whose “kids are her world” and is “sick of frick bois” doesn’t have a high quality dating life either.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The problem is that this is SEVERELY limiting. You're going to have to majorly adjust your expectations/demands and settle hard, in most cases. This isn't even about looks or even economics...the biggest thing you'll have to accept is that you will raise another man's kids.
That's the part I'm starting to sadly realize. I will say I'm not going to raise another man's kids. This might sound juvenile but why should I have to be the responsible one? Why should I be the one who has to step up after another man had their fun? Where was my fun? Do I not deserve the opportunity to have some fun before I would take on significant responsibility?
I feel like I'd probably rather stay single my entire life than to settle for an average woman with a kid that I would have to raise. The only exception would maybe be if they had a high school age or above kid as then they would be out of the picture some point soon and there would be no expectation that I would have to raise them. Of course the problem is for a woman to have kids who are already in high school or above they either had to have them crazy young or the woman would need to probably be in their early 40's.
But in general I think this is a shift as well. So many average men see the truly upper tier men getting to have their fun but then they are expected to clean up their mess. Less and less men are really willing to do that.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
is isn't even about looks or even economics...the biggest thing you'll have to accept is that you will raise another man's kids.
You don't have to tell me, I know brother. My not committing and putting off the marriage idea no doubt was a large part in things ending for me.
So you either accept that or you find someone who's kids are grown. Which isn't that far off from my age group.
I don't think it's necessarily such a bad thing really when it comes to someone's kid. You could be the example they need, because their dad might be a shithead. And they don't even realize it.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:16 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
This makes a lot of sense, and I would agree.
However, I think the same thing is happening on the male side as well, or the men are very clearly blowing off the women they aren’t interested in.
So the obese high school graduate woman in her late 20s or early 30s whose “kids are her world” and is “sick of frick bois” doesn’t have a high quality dating life either.
Agreed. I've focused on women but both sides have made dating life harder. I think this is where online dating and dating apps have screwed dating up. It's distorts dating and gives both sides the "illusion" of choice. The big part being the illusion. With more women being a swipe away both sides are hesitant to commit.
Attractive young women genuinely have it the best in terms of their general life and especially dating. Attractive young women have it better in dating than any man. With that said no one has it worse in terms of their general life and especially dating than a below average and/or obese woman.
With women if they are young (20s and 30s) and at least moderately attractive or at least not ugly and/or obese they have it made with dating. But if they are ugly and/or obese they are invisible to men.
The only men who will frick them or date them will be men who are also obese.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:16 pm to EarlyCuyler3
I got lucky to find my wife in my mid-30s. There was lots of turmoil (as seen publicly on this board) but a lot of that was personality quirks/possible autism which prevented me from getting into real relationships.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:18 pm to OceanTiger83
not responding to anyone in particular-
but it seems like the consensus in this thread is that women are damned if they sleep with you and damned if they don't.
but it seems like the consensus in this thread is that women are damned if they sleep with you and damned if they don't.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:19 pm to OceanTiger83
quote:
This might sound juvenile but why should I have to be the responsible one? Why should I be the one who has to step up after another man had their fun? Where was my fun? Do I not deserve the opportunity to have some fun before I would take on significant responsibility?
It's just a choice and decision you'll have to make. I made the choice to put things off and I think that was the downhill slide for me.
You don't have to, but in hindsight, I don't know that it would have been such a terrible thing. The thing that held me up was not knowing what kind of a teenager he would turn into. I don't want to come home and deal with chaos between mom and kid when I've been working or whatever else. But it might not have gone that way, we'll never know.
It's just a decision to make. Unfortunately these days, ruling out single moms reduces a significant chunk of the market. You have to decide whether you'd rather be single or deal with at least being a part of someone else's kids life. I don't regret getting involved with it for a second, but me not marrying her when she started talking about it started the clock in her head.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:20 pm to tigernurse
quote:
but it seems like the consensus in this thread is that women are damned if they sleep with you and damned if they don't.
Well you're all witches anyway, so...
It's just a tough reality of life these days.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:22 pm to tigernurse
quote:
but it seems like the consensus in this thread is that women are damned if they sleep with you and damned if they don't.
Reducing this to sex is very, very silly.
The main issue is the loneliness and despair from the low chance of pair bonding.
This isn't about men saying they're "entitled to sex", as the feminists say to spin the real discussion
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:22 pm to OceanTiger83
quote:
he only exception would maybe be if they had a high school age or above kid as then they would be out of the picture some point soon and there would be no expectation that I would have to raise them.
Adult children or not, your resources will still be allocated to her kid (weddings, home down payments, medical, etc). And so will hers.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I got lucky to find my wife in my mid-30s.
Congrats
I got married at 30, was no where near ready. Divorced by 35, now a few (ok, maybe more than a few) years later single again in my early 40's.
But life is still good. I'm looking towards relocating to an area where PLO is booming and doing that more full-time and healthcare part-time. Still a year or two down the road though.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:23 pm to OceanTiger83
Yeah, I think both groups have negative outcomes.
Men will just get ignored. Women will either be ignored or be casual fricks for extremely disinterested men who drop them the minute a better woman arrives.
Men will just get ignored. Women will either be ignored or be casual fricks for extremely disinterested men who drop them the minute a better woman arrives.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:24 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Well you're all witches anyway, so...
I think maturity for both men and women comes much later in life in the last couple of decades. which may contribute to divorce rates and single moms AND single dads.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:24 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
I'm looking towards relocating to an area where PLO is booming
You made me check Bravo to see if the big LC PLO game was on tonight. I think it's more of a Friday thing IIRC.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:25 pm to tigernurse
quote:
not responding to anyone in particular-
but it seems like the consensus in this thread is that women are damned if they sleep with you and damned if they don't.
I think most of us realize that both sides to some extent are to blame for the disaster that is the current dating environment.
I do think women shoulder more of the blame though as they are the ones who ultimately control the dating market. There is ample evidence (both in this thread and in general) that if you are a 8 - 10 man in terms of looks women will be all over you. If you are anything less than a 8 - 10 man though you are largely invisible to women.
This is causing a crisis for a lot of men as loneliness has skyrocketed and that also causes other issues such as depression. I know for me there have been times where I have been very lonely and would just like to wake up to a woman next to me in bed, watch a movie on the couch with a woman or even just take a walk with a woman holding hands. Notice I'm not even talking about sex, I'm talking about companionship.
Is it wrong to expect a woman who is a 6 to end in a relationship with a man who corresponds (so essentially in the 5 - 7) range. Until they last 20 years or so that's mostly what happened.
Nowadays though women who are 5's and 6's are still demanding a man in the 8 - 10 range. That's not realistic. Many women are also expecting a perfect man who make six figures, is 6 ft tall, has a great body, works out and has a high powered career but is still home at 5:30 each night to help with dinner and home cleaning. Never mind many individual women has other excessive demands. I would say most women here in the U.S. do not have reasonable expectations.
These unreasonable expectations are causing lots of men to give up on dating and a lot of them are becoming very lonely. That is going to cause larger societal issues down the road.
I'm not saying any of this is you tigermurse or any woman in particular, just in general. It's also been shown in multiple studies that women rate the vast majority of men as "below average" in terms of looks. Well that just isn't possible which means they are rating many men who are indeed average as below average.
Let me ask you this tigermurse. Most women would say that it's wrong for a man to judge a woman based purely on her physical looks. While physical looks are important I would agree with that. Would you also agree that it's wrong for a woman to judge a man based purely on how much he makes each year and/or the size of his bank account?
This post was edited on 9/23/23 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:25 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Men will just get ignored. Women will either be ignored or be casual fricks for extremely disinterested men who drop them the minute a better woman arrives.
Yeah it's 100% toxic.
I think most of the Elliot Rogers even would admit women have created a culture of delusion where they are fricking themselves, too.
Hence memes like the "cat lady"
Posted on 9/23/23 at 8:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The main issue is the loneliness and despair from the low chance of pair bonding.
that is the most accurate description of the actual article in the OP.
quote:
This isn't about men saying they're "entitled to sex", as the feminists say to spin the real discussion
perhaps not your contribution but several posts have been 'hit and quit it' 'bag it and tag it' in nature- so the mentality is there.
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