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re: Wisdom from Thomas Jefferson
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:15 am to ellishughtiger
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:15 am to ellishughtiger
quote:
He used his white privilege to seduce slaves Maga, right?
And MLK used his power/status to frick more women that 100 Thomas Jeffersons. But we can't talk bad about him, can we?
1
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:18 am to MarineVet
quote:
So based on your assertion... any information or data collected from time past is irrelevant because it happened in the past and not in the present? You are of the mind set that our government is smarter than the people who created it?
It all makes sense now.. good day.
Are you being purposely dense to make a point? I never wrote that. Instead, I wrote that quotes without context are useless. I never mentioned government, people, nor data. I mentioned quotes and meaning.
I am not making a political statement. I am just casting a cynical glance at the people who read a quote from someone and try to apply it to a modern scenario. Invariably those are doing it to fit their modern politics and paradigms. That's worthless. I even offered a perfectly serving example from the Declaration of Independence.
Does that make sense now? Good day.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:20 am to MarineVet
quote:This is funny coming from you MarineVet.
"As the doctrine is that a public debt is a public blessing, so [the chickens of the treasury] think a perpetual one is a perpetual blessing, and therefore wish to make it so large that we can never pay it off." --Thomas Jefferson to Nicholas Lewis, 1792. ME 8:325
Jefferson was talking about the expense of a standing army. Are you against a standing army like Jefferson?
quote:
Unremitting business must be my apology, as it is really the true one, for my having been longer without writing to you than my affections dictated. I am never a day without wishing myself with you, and more and more as the fine sun shine comes on, which seems made for all the world but me. Congress will rise about the 21st. They have past the Representation bill at one for 33,000. which gives to Virginia 19. members. They have voted an army of 5000. men, and the President has given the command to Wayne, with 4. brigadiers, to wit Morgan, Brooks, Willet, and Wilkinson. Congress is now engaged on the ways and means of raising money to pay this army. A further assumption of state debts has been proposed by the Secretary of the Treasury, which has been rejected by a small majority: but the chickens of the treasury have so many contrivances and are so indefatigable within doors and without, that we all fear they will get it in yet some way or other. As the doctrine is that a public debt is a public blessing, so they think a perpetual one is a perpetual blessing, and therefore wish to make it so large as that we can never pay it off.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:20 am to Salviati
Great. I'm glad you typed that all out. The fact remains the two quotes are saying the same thing, and in fact there's only one word difference that does nothing to change the meaning of the quote.
So to call it a "misquote" is rather petty.
So to call it a "misquote" is rather petty.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:22 am to MarineVet
quote:Jefferson never said it.
“There is nothing more unequal than the equal treatment of unequal people.”
Monticello
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:27 am to MarineVet
quote:
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes, the propagation of ideas which he?? disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
And I don't want my taxes going to an enormous miltary budget nor do I want my taxes spent on causing death and destruction overseas.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:27 am to Centinel
quote:
The issue of the proper role of government isn't an issue for both time periods?
Of course it is. TJ's statements as they stand,however, are practically meaningless today. Our issues are not the same. Our politics are not the same. Our standards are not the same.
You would rather pick-and-choose statements that correspond to your beliefs today. What about quotes that do not fit? When Jefferson wrote about agrarian societies leading to wealth and morality, do we take that for gospel? If so, third-world here we come! Are those just as worthwhile?
No, because people that use historical quotes do so to fit their narrative. Not TJ's narrative or those of the past.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:30 am to Centinel
quote:It was for your edification. I wish you read and understood it.
Great. I'm glad you typed that all out.
quote:
The fact remains the two quotes are saying the same thing,
It is a misquote. And it's a misuse of a misquote.
If you want to use the quote about religious liberty, go ahead. If you want to use the quote about economic liberty, you're flat wrong.
quote:There's only one word difference between. "You are a moron." and "You are not a moron."
and in fact there's only one word difference that does nothing to change the meaning of the quote.
quote:It is a misquote, and a pretty blatant misuse of a misquote.
To call it a "misquote" is rather petty.
What is petty is your attempt to defend a misuse of a misquote.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:36 am to AgCoug
quote:
Of course it is. TJ's statements as they stand,however, are practically meaningless today. Our issues are not the same. Our politics are not the same. Our standards are not the same.
The issues that concerned Jefferson are most certainly the same today. And our politics are in fact the same. Standards I'll agree have changed, and not all for the better.
quote:
You would rather pick-and-choose statements that correspond to your beliefs today.
No, because I choose to view Jefferson through his overall political ideology. One that I very much agree with and one that is very much relevant today.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:39 am to Salviati
quote:
It was for your edification.
I did not solicit, nor do I care for your edification. Especially since you provided no information that I did not already know.
So take your smug and shove it up your arse.
quote:
It is a misquote.
Petty. And I know it was misused. But you didn't say "that quote is out of context". You said "misquote" and nothing more until later.
quote:
If you want to use the quote about religious liberty, go ahead.
That is what we're discussing here.
quote:
There's only one word difference between. "You are a moron." and "You are not a moron."
And that one word changes the entire meaning of the quote. The one word change OP posted does not.
quote:
It is a misquote,
And it's still petty to focus on the misquote.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:09 am to Salviati
Funny how? I served during a time of war when he supported taxing for that purpose. Although I agree with most of his writings, I am not like liberals and agree 100% with everything written because they share my views. I disagree with him on not having a standing army.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:11 am to Jebadeb
You should visit Utopia...they accept people who share your view.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:12 am to Giantkiller
Well the slave owning does does sorta make this part ironic
TJs always been a better idea’s man
quote:
when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
TJs always been a better idea’s man
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:16 am to Salviati
Your source?
4. "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
This "Jefferson quote" first appeared in 1986, slightly after Jefferson's death in, oh, 1826.
Wow...you are very educated.
4. "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
This "Jefferson quote" first appeared in 1986, slightly after Jefferson's death in, oh, 1826.
Wow...you are very educated.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:18 am to MarineVet
Thomas Jefferson was woke AF
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:25 am to MarineVet
quote:I don't know what you are saying here. That Monticello is not an authoritative source about Jefferson? That a statement in 1986 could have been attributed correctly to Jefferson?
Your source?
4. "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
This "Jefferson quote" first appeared in 1986, slightly after Jefferson's death in, oh, 1826.
Wow...you are very educated.
What is your point?
You MAKE UP quotes from Jefferson about what he believed.
You agree with only SOME of what he actually believed.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:30 am to ClientNumber9
quote:
And MLK used his power/status to frick more women that 100 Thomas Jeffersons. But we can't talk bad about him, can we?
Quit with the fake whatchaaboutism you deplorable retard.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:31 am to Salviati
Read your own source...
"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, — the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it."3
Its not misquoted..its paraphrased dense one. From your own
LINK
"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, — the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it."3
Its not misquoted..its paraphrased dense one. From your own
LINK
Posted on 7/18/19 at 3:29 pm to Salviati
I saying the quote is a paraphrase from an actual letter he sent which demonstrates his view on the matter. You were the one that provided the website as a source. I simply used your source to demonstrate the truth behind the paraphrased quote in which case was created from his actual point of view.
Posted on 7/18/19 at 4:47 pm to AgCoug
quote:
quote:
The issue of the proper role of government isn't an issue for both time periods?
Of course it is. TJ's statements as they stand,however, are practically meaningless today. Our issues are not the same. Our politics are not the same. Our standards are not the same.
You would rather pick-and-choose statements that correspond to your beliefs today. What about quotes that do not fit? When Jefferson wrote about agrarian societies leading to wealth and morality, do we take that for gospel? If so, third-world here we come! Are those just as worthwhile?
No, because people that use historical quotes do so to fit their narrative. Not TJ's narrative or those of the past.
All of this discussion are opinions. Nothing more. Yours is no more correct than anyone else's, apart from you just being wrong! LoL
Saying we shouldn't apply the wisdom and truth of something he stated because EVERYTHING he said did not come to pass, is incredibly strict and extreme.
His statement may be meaningless to you, I don't agree.
You agreed principles(fundamental truths) of government are the same then as today, given the context then compared to now.... I'd argue his statement is truer today than when he said it.
With so much your and my taxes being wasted and given to those unwilling to work, how could his words NOT be applied today?
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