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re: Will you make it to heaven?

Posted on 1/26/20 at 8:54 am to
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
38336 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 8:54 am to
quote:

i mean if your going to make him offer the burden of proof to his statement, should you not hold yourself to the same level and show proof it does exist?


Actually, no. If you postulate one position or the other, the burden of proof is on you. Others only need shoot holes in your hypothesis, unless they assert the opposite.

But in defense of the poster's assertion, it was not an absolute, only a conjecture of the likely scenario in his opinion. So I would say he could honestly say that he has seen no definitive proof.

Things that are, by definition, matters of faith will likely have no irrefutable proof, if they did there would be no need for faith.

Wow, I really ran down that rabbit hole.
Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Member since Jan 2020
696 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 8:58 am to
quote:

well have you? i mean if your going to make him offer the burden of proof to his statement, should you not hold yourself to the same level and show proof it does exist?

I made no claims either way. He made the claim. Burden of proof is on him.
Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Member since Jan 2020
696 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:00 am to
quote:

He needs to show HIS work that an afterlife doesn't exist? Seems as if the burden of proof would be on those claiming to believe in an afterlife.

ETA: Should I write a thesis on how fairies aren't flying around in my garden right now?

Perhaps you should write a thesis on where the infinitesimal speck that exploded came from?
Posted by Esquire
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
13581 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:01 am to
quote:

I believe in heaven. But imagine being cognitively “conscious” for eternity. Strange concept


If you can’t sin in heaven, does that mean you don’t have free will anymore? If that’s the case, are you even you?
Posted by nola000
Lacombe, LA
Member since Dec 2014
13139 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:12 am to
quote:


Show your work.

Unless you and you alone have figured out the origins of life. You have no clue as to the validity of your statement


I'm not the one making the claim that something exists. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. There's been zero evidence of any place resembling what would be described as an afterlife. Not saying that one doesn't exist but there's no tangible proof of one. Therefore, it's quite a leap to just automatically assume there is one. Tell me where my logic is wrong.
Posted by reddy tiger
Mandeville
Member since Aug 2012
1602 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:17 am to
Since we’re discussing fairy tales, can we talk about how communion is ritualistic cannibalism of a sacrificial virgin?

Weird stuff.
Posted by Mr Clean
Power I-Formation
Member since Aug 2006
52562 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:20 am to
quote:

it's far preferable to the only known alternative.



David the Gnome’s basement?
Posted by tketaco
Sunnyside, Houston
Member since Jan 2010
21159 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:34 am to
Please erase my search history before I die.
Posted by nola000
Lacombe, LA
Member since Dec 2014
13139 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:50 am to
quote:

Actually, no. If you postulate one position or the other, the burden of proof is on you. Others only need shoot holes in your hypothesis, unless they assert the opposite.

But in defense of the poster's assertion, it was not an absolute, only a conjecture of the likely scenario in his opinion. So I would say he could honestly say that he has seen no definitive proof.

Things that are, by definition, matters of faith will likely have no irrefutable proof, if they did there would be no need for faith.

Wow, I really ran down that rabbit hole.


Thank you.

You said it for me. One of the few times around here that someone didn't make a retard assumption or leap of logic over something I wrote.

My claim was simply that there's no proof one way or another therefore there's no compelling reason to believe one way or another. I guess that's the agnostics creed.

People that want to believe get mad about that, far angrier than those who are as certain about their non-belief. But neither really have a leg to stand on because neither can prove anything one way or another. I understand it though. The fear of the unknown is palpable and it drives people to make incredible claims. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The need to believe makes you more human than anything. So I guess one could take solace in knowing that they're doing exactly what they as a sentient being are designed to do.
This post was edited on 1/26/20 at 9:52 am
Posted by nola000
Lacombe, LA
Member since Dec 2014
13139 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:54 am to
quote:

I made no claims either way. He made the claim. Burden of proof is on him.


Are you talking about me?

This is what I wrote.

quote:

Well, the likelihood that such a place exists is very low but I do know this, you'll still be dead.


I see no specific claim in this statement above. I simply made an observation about the likelihood of a claim. I did make the claim that "you'd still be dead" but that is, in fact, true. Well, what I mean is, dead in the sense of our world. As observable by others. Medically dead.
Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Member since Jan 2020
696 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:55 am to
quote:


I'm not the one making the claim that something exists. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim

You made a claim.
quote:

nola000

Well, the likelihood that such a place exists is very low

Prove that the likelihood is low.

Cite your sources.
Posted by SD Tider
San Diego
Member since May 2019
2500 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:57 am to
I’m not a Christian, but I’ll give you the correct answer if you do believe the Bible: suicide is a sin. Sins are acts performed by broken, imperfect, and fallen creatures who depend on Christ’s mercy for forgiveness. There is no sin that can’t be forgiven, and the timing of sins, whether past, present, or future, is irrelevant.

If you truly believe in Jesus and humbly ask for his forgiveness he not only forgives you for your past sins but also your future sins in accord with the covenant he promises in the Bible.
Posted by nola000
Lacombe, LA
Member since Dec 2014
13139 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:58 am to
quote:

You made a claim


You don't know what a claim is apparently. A claim is a statement of fact. I made an observation about the likelihood of any statement of fact. That's not the same as a claim. An observation and a claim or not the same thing. Especially when stated in terms of probability.

quote:

Prove that the likelihood is low.

Cite your sources


You don't prove an observation. It's personal. Anecdotal.

Speaking of which, it really sounds like you're taking this personally. Stating that something magical is unlikely based on what we know of the universe isn't an outrageous statement.

Discussions of an afterlife are matters of faith. Matters of faith automatically preclude any logic by its very definition.
This post was edited on 1/26/20 at 10:01 am
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
34654 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 9:59 am to
Why debate a point that isn't up for me to decide?
Posted by oldcharlie8
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2012
7808 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 10:02 am to
if the human race found out, without a shadow of a doubt, that heaven does not exist, someone better hurry up and invent an afterlife. humans don't like "the end". we aren't built for it mentally.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
34654 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 10:03 am to
Your response is spot-on and it is a definitive answer to the OP's question.

Thanks.
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 10:08 am to
quote:

According to many biblical scholars here, that means that I am doomed to eternal hellfire.
that is exactly what Christ said according to the Bible. He said he is the ONLY way to the Father (and thus eternal life).
Posted by Rouge
Floston Paradise
Member since Oct 2004
137803 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 10:09 am to
quote:

that is exactly what Christ said according to the Bible. He said he is the ONLY way to the Father (and thus eternal life).


So you believe that 3+ billion non-Christians are going to hell, even though they have no knowledge of understanding of Christianity

Think about those implications for just a moment
Posted by Johnny Roastbeef
Somewhere in Bartow County
Member since Sep 2018
2004 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 10:11 am to
quote:

Will you make it to heaven?


Only if you live in St George
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 1/26/20 at 10:11 am to
quote:

I got saved several years ago in high school but don’t really have anything to do with church and all of that...
If you or anyone accepted or accepts Christ at any point in life, he or she is saved according to the Bible. Nothing further is required for eternal life.

However, we will all stand before him for accountability of how we used our gifts, talents, and abilities. That accountability for Christians has nothing to do with punishment, only what rewards we may or may not receive. Those rewards will have value different than what anyone can imagine in this life.
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