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re: Why are some of you rooting for cities to burn?
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:37 am to shel311
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:37 am to shel311
quote:so much backpedaling going on ITT.
It's weird that this is all of a sudden some super important time in peoples lives that they just have met their quota on shite they care about, and now is the time to draw the line and not take on any more items to care about.
0
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:39 am to Salmon
quote:Absolutely, but it isn’t, therefore it is an “all or nothing” situation.
that would be great, wouldn't it?
Kinda sucks to be put in that situation, isn’t it?
quote:Fine, you can call that demonizing.
You have done the "they voted for this" post many times.
Here is another example. All of those “conservatives” who voted for Trump are to blame for that insane stimulus bill that was worse than the one they demonized Obama and his supporters for.
quote:Only in 2016 and 2020.
You literally stated earlier that you have been lucky because all of your guys have lost.
My vote for Jindal shows my responsibility for what happened to LA between 2008 and 2016.
There are terrible long term effects sadly.
quote:That is the entire essence of my argument.
No. That hasn't been my argument, but that is what you keep trying to shift it to.
You are responsible for every position/action taken or enacted by the politician you supported, voted for, and elected.
Jesus Christ.
Are we arguing two completely different things here, or something?
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 11:45 am
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:43 am to Scruffy
quote:
Absolutely, but it isn’t, therefore it is an “all or nothing” situation.
and like I said, this "all or nothing" approach is simply a way to force people into boxes
quote:
Here is another example. All of those “conservatives” who voted for Trump are to blame for that insane stimulus bill that was worse than the one they demonized Obama and his supporters for.
I don't think they are to blame because any R or D would have done the same thing and there are plenty of people that voted for Trump that vehemently disagreed with the stimulus packages
why should these people be blamed for something that Trump never campaigned on?
now if they criticized Obama and cheered Trump, that certainly makes them massive hypocrites
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:44 am to SCLibertarian
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:47 am to Scruffy
quote:
Are we arguing two completely different things here, or something?
I completely understand your logic, as it isn't a difficult concept. In fact, its the opposite of difficult. It's literally the easiest way to view things. "All or nothing", black and white, right and left, etc
Its dumb logic and removes any and all nuance or individualism
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:48 am to cahoots
quote:That was before people filled their quota of shite to care about though!!!
There were posts all over this very board criticizing non-Texans for not being sympathetic to the Texas winter storm.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:48 am to shel311
quote:
2nd person to all of a sudden take this stance despite 1000s of posts on other issues that they seem to care more about and never once said they didn't care because they have more important things to worry about
I'll tell you why I don't care about this: because the issue, as framed, isn't worth caring about. This entire George Floyd ordeal has shown how stupid Americans are. There are pages and pages of threads on this site that frame this as a race issue when it should be a militarization of police issue. Instead of talking about qualified immunity, we're debating BLM and defund the police. Nothing will be learned from this. Nothing will be changed because of this. There will be riots and then they'll stop. And a few months from now, we'll rinse and repeat. So why should I give a frick when it's clear that most citizens, the media, politicians and activists have zero interest in substantive debate?
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:49 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
I don't know, man. Maybe we're using different definitions or applying different degrees to the word responsibility.
So if an elected official had an absolutely perfectly logical platform that you liked, but had one massive flaw, let's say they wanted to round up the other side and put them into camps.
And they say it before they are elected, and they are elected anyway. But there enough people that believe in utilitarianism, and they accept that for the peace and prosperity.
And that person is put in power. Since they said, and were elected, and did it, can you really absolve ANYONE who voted from them from that kind of action?
I don't buy it.
The only way you can absolve someone for a bad action like this is because of utilitarianism, that you are broadly applying, that a politician's "good" decisions are worth the bad ones.
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 11:53 am
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:49 am to cardswinagain
quote:
A lot of the people that live in these cities did not ask for it.
I feel for these people, but they should move.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:52 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
There are pages and pages of threads on this site that frame this as a race issue when it should be a militarization of police issue.
It is neither. It is a black culture issue.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:53 am to Freauxzen
quote:I would agree with this but Scruffy's argument goes much further than this. He argues that you are responsible for any and all actions that politician makes while in office, unforeseen or otherwise. You guys seem to be jumping over entire posts or maybe leaving out the parts that don't fit your arguments?
And they say it before they are elected, and they are elected anyway. But there enough people that believe in utilitarianism, and they accept that for the peace and prosperity.
And that person is put in power. Since they said, and were elected, and did it, can you really absolve ANYONE who voted from them from that kind of action?
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:56 am to SCLibertarian
quote:I mean, people's lives are being ruined over it. No one is asking to take all this time out of your day worrying or doing something about it. But I think it's pretty normal to call it out as pretty shitty to actively root for innocent people to have their property destroyed and in many cases their lives ruined over it. Seems like a simple concept.
I'll tell you why I don't care about this: because the issue, as framed, isn't worth caring about
quote:1. I have no idea why this is relevant to the discussion.
This entire George Floyd ordeal has shown how stupid Americans are. There are pages and pages of threads on this site that frame this as a race issue when it should be a militarization of police issue. Instead of talking about qualified immunity, we're debating BLM and defund the police. Nothing will be learned from this. Nothing will be changed because of this. There will be riots and then they'll stop. And a few months from now, we'll rinse and repeat. So why should I give a frick when it's clear that most citizens, the media, politicians and activists have zero interest in substantive debate?
2. Many of the people who are having their property destroyed and lives ruined are not media/politicians and activists who have zero interest in substantive debate, in fact they're the ones ruining the lives of others that you see no issue with people rooting for.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:56 am to Salmon
quote:
Its dumb logic and removes any and all nuance or individualism
We will simply have to disagree.
It is my stance that, when you vote, if you and the politician differ on a policy position, but you don’t consider that position a priority and you vote for them, you discard your stance for theirs.
This is because, again, you are voting for their entire platform, not just the aspects of it that you support.
You bear responsibility for all of it. You may not like it or believe in it, but you voted for it.
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:57 am to imjustafatkid
quote:I think that's all most are really saying, it doesn't take much to feel for them and there's no reason not to.
I feel for these people,
quote:Not everyone can do that so simply.
but they should move.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 11:58 am to shel311
And by people who never even knew George Floyd......
Posted on 4/20/21 at 12:00 pm to Scruffy
quote:
You bear responsibility for all of it.
and my stance is that, due to our absurdly limited voting system, a system that none of us had a part in choosing, it is unfair standard to enforce
and honestly, I don't think its a standard that you will hold yourself accountable to in the future
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 4/20/21 at 12:01 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
I would agree with this but Scruffy's argument goes much further than this. He argues that you are responsible for any and all actions that politician makes while in office, unforeseen or otherwise. You guys seem to be jumping over entire posts or maybe leaving out the parts that don't fit your arguments?
I mean, basically you are. In the stark difference of the idea above its clear. You might not be AS responsible for other things, but you are responsible.
Not to take this on another tangent, but this is precisely why a strong, federal government is a problem, and more local governments should be stronger. I don't know whether you agree or disagree with that, but we've built a monster of a federal government, and like it or not, if we empower it that much our responsibility grows and grows with that. That's why our local, re: closer, governments and systems should have more power....because we are responsible for that and can see and manage its effects. And make change.
How we've turned that around over the last few decades is the core of the problem - and leads to this kind of complex responsibility problem. We cannot separate ourselves from that, even though it feels logical.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 12:02 pm to Salmon
quote:I never said it wasn’t unfair.
and my stance is that, due to our absurdly limited voting system, a system that none of us had a part in choosing, it is unfair standard to enforce
quote:We will just have to see how that pans out then, huh?
and honestly, I don't think its a standard that you will hold yourself accountable to in the future
Posted on 4/20/21 at 12:03 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Not to take this on another tangent, but this is precisely why a strong, federal government is a problem, and more local governments should be stronger. I don't know whether you agree or disagree with that, but we've built a monster of a federal government, and like it or not, if we empower it that much our responsibility grows and grows with that. That's why our local, re: closer, governments and systems should have more power....because we are responsible for that and can see and manage its effects. And make change.
Posted on 4/20/21 at 12:03 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Not to take this on another tangent, but this is precisely why a strong, federal government is a problem, and more local governments should be stronger. I don't know whether you agree or disagree with that, but we've built a monster of a federal government, and like it or not, if we empower it that much our responsibility grows and grows with that. That's why our local, re: closer, governments and systems should have more power....because we are responsible for that and can see and manage its effects. And make change.
this is the exact reason why I have checked out of national politics and have focused my energy on local elections
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