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re: What would have happened had the South

Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:46 pm to
Posted by damnedoldtigah
Middle of Louisiana
Member since Jan 2014
4275 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:46 pm to
Both countries would have been weakened to the extent that both would been ripe for a takeover by France and/or England who still had powerful militaries at the time. We would have needed each other to repel any such attempt.
Posted by LSUTigersVCURams
Member since Jul 2014
21940 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:46 pm to
If it had survived, the Confederacy would have ended up being like an large English-speaking Latin-American country with a relatively prosperous economy due to the abundance of natural resources. It would probably look similar to a place like Brazil.
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 1:49 pm
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:48 pm to
Movie didn't have any insight as I recall.
Posted by Carl Tuckerson
The wind-swept plains
Member since Oct 2019
1026 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

Ok ok. What if the south has succeeded in winning their secession in the civil war?

Slavery gradually would have fallen out of favor in the South due to changing economic conditions. Industrial giants in the North had to pay their workers far less than the upkeep on slaves cost the slaveowners, and eventually the large Southern farmers would have gotten the idea that staffing their farms with paid hands was more efficient. Slavery was actually on its way out in the 1790s, before the cotton gin made cotton so profitable that the slaveowners could continue using the less efficient slave labor without hurting their profits.

With slavery gone, I think there's a real chance for peaceful reunification, because despite what we're told in high school history classes, the North and South had similar racial tensions between blacks and whites before the civil rights era. The South just gets the heat for it because we had more of a history of institutionalizing it, but I don't think the segregation regime that would have arisen in a "free" South would have been cause for the two countries to stay separate.

As far as foreign policy goes, I think if the CSA proved itself militarily capable of preserving its independence, there would be no subsequent military efforts by the USA to forcibly annex the CSA back into one country. I think they would seek relatively peaceful relations, much like how the British and the Americans sought to become each other's biggest trade partners, and gradually to become each other's closest allies, after the Revolutionary War. Eventually I could see peaceful, voluntary reunification, once the passions of the Civil War died out and slavery was retired in the South. But I'm confident that North America would not become a chessboard on the world stage where the two countries routinely found themselves on opposite sides of major conflicts. The one situation where I think it's even possible is in WWII. But I suspect the solution to that difference would be for both countries to make a mutual agreement to stay out of another European war. And honestly, the CSA might not be as sympathetic to the Axis as I think, or at least might not let that ideological sympathy guide foreign policy.

Lot of navel-gazing here obviously but that's my take based on how I understand the Civil War and its aftermath. I studied a little history in college, although I think that actively hurts people trying to get to a real answer. Mostly I just read a lot on my own time.
Posted by TigerDeBaiter
Member since Dec 2010
10727 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

History is something that’s completely nonexistent to me


FIFY
Posted by Zendog
Santa Barbara
Member since Feb 2019
6794 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:24 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 2:47 pm
Posted by G The Tiger Fan
Member since Apr 2015
116871 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:31 pm to
What would have happened if the colonies had revolted against the Crown?
Posted by efrad
Member since Nov 2007
18703 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

Movie didn't have any insight as I recall.


The movie has plenty of shallow lampooning of the South, but at the same time has a lot of interesting thought into what a modern society that more accepted slavery would look like -- for example, seeing the ads for slavery security systems using modern technology

Try not to take it too seriously. Like I said, it's comedy.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:37 pm to
quote:

With slavery gone, I think there's a real chance for peaceful reunification


No, the split would have been permanent.

Southerners viewed northern intrusion into their affairs as a political slavery, and this was their last chance to preserve their independence.

A powerful sense of Confederate nationalism emerged during the war as well. They took immense pride in the state they built, and they felt a kinship with other southerners.

This persist as southern pride.

Mobilization rates are the best measure of the appeal the Confederacy held. And Richmond achieved total mobilization during the war. The few who didn’t serve were either physically unfit, or held essential civilian jobs.
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 2:40 pm
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:40 pm to
The part with the shackle is hilarious.
Posted by Carl Tuckerson
The wind-swept plains
Member since Oct 2019
1026 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

No, the split would have been permanent.

I'm not saying it's a high chance, but I don't think anybody can confidently say there is zero chance when projecting an alternate history arbitrarily far into the future.

I don't doubt that the Confederate/Southern identity would have held until the present day, nor that it wouldn't have been incredibly strong. I think both of those things would be even more true if the CSA had won the Civil War. But I also think it's plausible that some time long after the passions of the Civil War cooled that reunification would be on the table. It would almost certainly involve a different structuring of government, both to account for the fact that both countries would have separate constitutions and institutions by then and because of the independent history in the interim. I am envisioning a three-tiered system where you have individually sovereign states ceding some of their authority to a regional government (the USA/CSA), which in turn have above them a national government in charge of some roles most efficiently served by one (like providing for the national infrastructure, combining the militaries, a national court system for enforcement of national laws).

I do think the most plausible outcome is that the two countries remain amicable, closely integrated, but ultimately sovereign and separate countries. I don't think it's implausible that they might decide to reunite eventually though.
Posted by CarrolltonTiger
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
50291 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 5:56 pm to
quote:

There would be fewer Yankees in Florida


Detroit, Chicago, Newark, Gary, Milwaukee..., would all have dynamic, livable inner cities.
Posted by 225bred
COYS
Member since Jun 2011
21016 posts
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:37 pm to
I’ve never heard of this mockumentary.

Just watched it on amazon prime, that was some funny and creative shite. Worth the watch
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