re: What is the sales pitch for meth and heroine?

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Like that WarEagle guy, he does not believe they have any choice. Of course, there are different choices.

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False. Choices exist. It's what underlies choices that is not under our control.

As long as I don't pick up, yes I have choices, but the minute I pick up my addict brain nullifies those choices (yes I know there is still a choice but it's been proven that true addicts are wired differently) so yes I choose to do the work outlined in the steps and continue to stay sober because I know what will happen if make the other choice. I get what you are saying and I hope you get where I'm coming from, I'm not the best with words but I am speaking from the heart as well as from experience. I don't blame my past addiction on anyone but me, and unlike most addicts I have always known it was me and not any outside force causing my behavior. That is the hardest thing to get some addicts I work sponsor to see.

If meth and heroin were legal they would ruin no more lives than alcohol and kill less than tobacco

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If meth and heroin were legal they would ruin no more lives than alcohol and kill less than tobacco

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Of course that is true but that isn't what your first post said

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As I have said before they often really don't have a choice WHILE they are jonesing for a fix but as soon as they get their fix, which happens every single day, they have the choice to get help.

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Nope you gotta get to gettin so you can hustle up enough to get the next fix before you run out c'mon man.

Im still new to this recovery thing, but science and logic have do e absolutely nothing for me. The choice that i made was to live a different life, and sobriety has been a byproduct of that because of what i truly believe is spiritual and nothing of this world. I didnt choose to quit using. I chose to become a better person. I chose to find a different solution to my personal issues. The need to get loaded is slowly going away. Did i dorectly choose to stop getting loaded? Not a chance. Im not capable of making that decision on my own these days and my entire life experience will back that up. The amount of times i said im not getting loaded again seconds before putting a needle in my arm proves to me, logical, rational, or not that i couldnt stop on my own. Whether im right or wrong in the eyes of the world is no concern to me. This is what i have to believe to stay above ground so this is what i believe. But i totally understand why its hard concept for people to understand why we feel this way.

How? I said they aren't much different. They aren't much different in terms of ruining lives. Heroin ruins lives because people have to steal for their fix and end up ruining relationships because of it, if it was legal and cheaper it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Say you could get a gram of dope for 15 bucks as opposed to the 100-150 it costs now, people wouldn't be robbing their families for that. If the government made pure meth it wouldn't be as big of a health issue, most likely safer than tobacco and alcohol

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Science proves that drugs affect the chemical makeup of the brain. I never disputed that. What I find funny is, addicts say they are chemically dependent on the drug, but once they are no longer chemically dependent, they are still addicts, which I don't believe is entirely true.

You treat the brain and body physically for the addiction. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the way AA and NA say you will ALWAYS be addicted, like this noose that is always around your neck and if you slip you're done. AND YOU'RE POWERLESS OVER IT. In my opinion, it's a false reality that is pushed by the culture of AA and NA.

You can treat the underlying causes of addiction. You can get over it. Your body and brain can overcome the dependency with help. But, after it does, are YOU ready to forgive yourself, are you ready to realize your own worth, and are you ready to confront why you turned to drugs in the first place? That's the toughest battle, imo.

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AA addresses all of this, and I'm sorry once an addict always an addict, that's not say you can't come back from a slip, but I don't ever want to slip and find out. It may be a FALSE REALITY to you but it's not to me. You see I laid down dope more than once but I ALWAYS picked it back up and I was ALWAYS worse off than before each time. (These were always after forced abstinence ie: prison, jail, etc) So yeah I believe that. BTW I will never say that AA/NA is the only way to get or stay sober, it's just the only thing that worked for me.

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I do have a problem with the way AA and NA say you will ALWAYS be addicted, like this noose that is always around your neck and if you slip you're done. AND YOU'RE POWERLESS OVER IT. In my opinion, it's a false reality that is pushed by the culture of AA and NA.

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Let's say for a second that I don't believe everything the 12 step programs teach. My life depended on the decisions I made so I decided not to be a dick and throw the whole program away
Because of what I considered an insignificant difference of.philosophy.

It worked. I'm alive and I don't care if I'm being intellectually dishonest with myself.

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You should tell them to stop choosing to do drugs.

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He should tell them to choose to get help.