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Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:08 am to Titan
quote:
All I am saying is that as living humans I believe this is way bigger than our small brains can answer.
I understand your point, it's just that I think it so undervalues just how special our species is...which is surprising given I'm the godless one!
We have, as a species, unlocked untold amounts of information in what amounts to the blink of an eye in cosmic terms. While there will always be unanswerable questions (how many actual grains of sand are there on Earth? There is a number, right? It's simply impossible to ever count them all precisely.) there's no reason to think that so many of the ones that we today think are unanswerable are only so because we currently lack the tools to unlock them. Think of what we considered unknowable 400 years ago? What we those humans living 400 years from now look back on and wonder how we did not know those things?
quote:
So trying to figure it out in my opinion is a waste of what little time we have.
Again...I think this sells us short. From my perspective, it's our only job...the acquisition of information and passing it on to further generations. We are, in a very real sense, the universe getting to know itself. I think we'd be doing a tremendous disservice to this entire process if we simply said "screw it" and just stood around watching clouds go by.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:09 am to stonerolledaway
quote:
Actually since Adam sinned we are all born dead spiritually, this is why Christ told Nicodemus you must be born again. Those who trust Christ actually are made alive spiritually and have eternal life, the subsequent bodily death is just the old man being thrown off. Those who reject Christ are already 'walking dead' and when the body dies will face judgment and also the second death which is the soul in the lake of fire.
This is where we start to have issues...
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:12 am to Heathens
Been straightlined 4 minutes. Only thing I can tell you is that its 100 times more serious situation than you have ever been in before. either heaven or hell. thats the extremely strong impression I got.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:13 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
quote: So trying to figure it out in my opinion is a waste of what little time we have. Again...I think this sells us short. From my perspective, it's our only job...the acquisition of information and passing it on to further generations. We are, in a very real sense, the universe getting to know itself. I think we'd be doing a tremendous disservice to this entire process if we simply said "screw it" and just stood around watching clouds go by.
Exactly. From a nonbeliever's perspective I couldn't agree more. I don't see anything more important than advancing knowledge and trying to understand the universe around us. I don't understand why a religious person would find little to no value in pursuing the knowledge though. Wouldn't you WANT to know more of your God's works and creation?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:17 am to rbWarEagle
quote:
quote:
Actually since Adam sinned we are all born dead spiritually, this is why Christ told Nicodemus you must be born again. Those who trust Christ actually are made alive spiritually and have eternal life, the subsequent bodily death is just the old man being thrown off. Those who reject Christ are already 'walking dead' and when the body dies will face judgment and also the second death which is the soul in the lake of fire.
This is where we start to have issues...
Having an opinion is fine and dandy. When your opinion is a commandment and outright condemnation of others to eternal suffering if they don't believe as you do... Yea that's pretty messed up IMO.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:18 am to brooksbabino
quote:
What happens when we die?
You go to Heaven or Hell.
But just remember, being a good person will not get you into heaven. Being good has nothing to do with it.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:18 am to brooksbabino
quote:
Having an opinion is fine and dandy. When your opinion is a commandment and outright condemnation of others to eternal suffering if they don't believe as you do... Yea that's pretty messed up IMO.
Especially when you start preaching that nonsense to children. Child abuse doesn't even begin to cover it.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:20 am to ctiger69
quote:
But just remember, being a good person will not get you into heaven. Being good has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, because we all know that Hitler on his deathbed could have asked Jesus for forgiveness and gotten everlasting life out of the deal.... seems legit, right?
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:20 am to Heathens
The energy that is consciousness goes somewhere.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:23 am to brooksbabino
quote:
I don't see anything more important than advancing knowledge and trying to understand the universe around us
I keep this Hitchens video handy...play it every few days to be honest. I think it's such a brave and truthful way of seeing the world in the only way we really know it to be.
LINK
As I said earlier, there is certainly an appeal to latching on to a belief system that entitles me to continue existing. I kind of enjoy existing, and it seems like something I'd prefer doing instead o NOT doing it. But not only do I see no actual evidence of anything like that, but the hoops I'd have to jump through in order to be part of any of those groups is to anything I'm willing to do.
But even at the Pascal's Wager level, I find it absurd to think you could simply will yourself into believing a thing without evidence forcing your hand. I don't think you can honestly hedge your bets, so to speak. I mean that from the side of you and I...not the person who already believes.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:24 am to jeffsdad
Can you share some more on this topic? It would be appreciated! Seems like you might actually have some real material to share with the thread.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:25 am to rbWarEagle
quote:
Yeah, because we all know that Hitler on his deathbed could have asked Jesus for forgiveness and gotten everlasting life out of the deal.... seems legit, right?
Satan agrees with you.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:26 am to Heathens
quote:
Can you share some more on this topic? It would be appreciated! Seems like you might actually have some real material to share with the thread.
Anecdotal evidence from near death experiences is dubious at best, though certainly interesting.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:27 am to rbWarEagle
I kissed my 8 a.m. because I overslept
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:28 am to ctiger69
quote:quote:
Yeah, because we all know that Hitler on his deathbed could have asked Jesus for forgiveness and gotten everlasting life out of the deal.... seems legit, right?
Satan agrees with you.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:34 am to stonerolledaway
quote:
Those who reject Christ are already 'walking dead' and when the body dies will face judgment and also the second death which is the soul in the lake of fire.
Yea I'm sure we're going to a subterranean fire pit where guys with pitchforks prod us.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:41 am to GeauxTigerTM
Hitchens was such a brilliant guy. Love watching him eviscerate his debate opponents while nonchalantly sipping on JWB Scotch.
And yes - wanting something to be true has zero bearing on its veracity.
The problem is that faith is viewed as a virtue in our society or at least in the southern US. So there is no need to further investigate the world if you've already got all of the answers.
And yes - wanting something to be true has zero bearing on its veracity.
quote:
But even at the Pascal's Wager level, I find it absurd to think you could simply will yourself into believing a thing without evidence forcing your hand. I don't think you can honestly hedge your bets, so to speak. I mean that from the side of you and I...not the person who already believes.
The problem is that faith is viewed as a virtue in our society or at least in the southern US. So there is no need to further investigate the world if you've already got all of the answers.
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 10:43 am
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:46 am to AUveritas
quote:I love science as much as the next guy but there is and always will be the 'prime mover' question that science just can't answer.
According to science, all time and space began at the Big Bang.
For example, if all time and space began at the Big Bang, what came before that and what, exactly, caused the Big Bang?
And talk about 'nothingness' or 'simulations' is just solipsistic tautology, IMO.
Perhaps, though, there is an unknowable which lies beyond the grasp of science and reason. This would be the domain of faith -not religion, faith.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:52 am to Knight of Old
quote:
I love science as much as the next guy but there is and always will be the 'prime mover' question that science just can't answer.
For example, if all time and space began at the Big Bang, what came before that and what, exactly, caused the Big Bang?
And talk about 'nothingness' or 'simulations' is just solipsistic tautology, IMO.
Perhaps, though, there is an unknowable which lies beyond the grasp of science and reason. This would be the domain of faith -not religion, faith.
There are models in physics that are consistent and describe the universe as being eternal - we still don't know if the Universe had a beginning. There are also consistent models that show how a universe can come from nothing. Lawrence Krauss's "A Universe From Nothing" is a pretty solid read that explores this notion and shows how it is entirely possible for a universe to arise from what we would refer to as "nothing." That being said, if the universe DID have a beginning and you appeal to this "prime mover" - who or what created the prime mover? Surely something more powerful and complex had to be there before the prime mover to create said prime mover? The argument has the infinite regress problem, unless you engage in special pleading.
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