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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:59 am to Irregardless
quote:
There are legal obligations and moral obligations.
Whose morals?
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:59 am to upgrade
quote:
Quite the odd number here.
think it was 150 Euros
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:01 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
In my generation, it would have been a gift of some sort
In this generation, no way this happens
There are stories like this older than any of us here. They aren't common with this type of profit, but they pop up from time-to-time. Hell, Antiques Roadshow loved to tell these stories.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:04 am to Baylor
I think Antique Tiger should give some of the $4 million to the couple he bought the mask from. You know he had researched that mask on eBay and had some idea how much it was worth.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:10 am to LegendInMyMind
Don't know why you are laughing. You've never heard of fraud by omission?
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:41 am to Baylor
No. It would have been a kind gesture to give them a small amount but no, the couple isn't owed anything.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:43 am to Tortious
quote:
Don't know why you are laughing. You've never heard of fraud by omission?
Even the damn "experts" didn't know what the thing was or how much it is "worth". You think the guy who hired three different appraisers who had to go so far as using carbon dating, and still missed the mark by a considerable amount, knew its value? And what if it had been determined to be a junk reproduction worth less than the guy paid and put into it to determine the value, should the sellers reimburse him for his loss? Were they being deceptive? Would that have been fraud if it had only been "worth" $10?
This post was edited on 10/5/23 at 10:45 am
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:44 am to Baylor
quote:
Should the dealer have to give the couple some of the profits ?
I think throwing them 100 grand would be a classy gesture, but I wouldn’t call it necessary, either.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:48 am to Baylor
Would he be morally obligated if he only made a couple hundred bucks profit?
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:50 am to Baylor
Everything has a value at a specific point in time. Did the dealer know? Maybe. Does it matter? Nope. Free market determines price. Bad on them for not getting it appraised prior to sale.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:51 am to Baylor
quote:
The object was brought back from Gabon by the husband’s grandfather, who had been a colonial governer in Africa in the early 20th century.
So they knew the history of the mask. Did absolutely no leg work then accepted $157, and are upset that the person they sold it to went above and beyond after the point of sale and found out it was a very valuable piece?
quote:
The antiques dealer initially offered to settle out of court by paying the couple €300,000 euros, or about $315,000, for the mask but they were not able to reach an agreement because of the opposition of the couple’s children, according to court documents.
Looks like he tried to make a significant offer, which was 1,000 times more than his initial estimates from the first 2 auction houses; and they are refusing. Wonder if they made any sort of counteroffer, or if they are demanding the full $4M
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:52 am to Godfather1
quote:
I think throwing them 100 grand would be a classy gesture, but I wouldn’t call it necessary, either.
He tried to give them $300k to settle, but they want the full $4M plus damages
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:55 am to Weekend Warrior79
So the guy did offer to cut them in? 
The greedy shitbird children thought they were owed more than 300 grand? frick em, I hope the family gets nothing, and if I were the dealer I would retract that offer and give them nothing unless I absolutely had to because of a court order.
Hell, I'd get petty and counter sue for damages......in the amount of $157.
ETA: And where the hell were the loving kids prior to the sale when the old folks were cleaning out their attic? They couldn't be bothered? They couldn't have helped guide their parents through that process? Nah, they're kicking themselves and are sick that they missed out on a windfall. They probably didn't give a damn until the money entered the picture. No personal responsibility to be found.
The greedy shitbird children thought they were owed more than 300 grand? frick em, I hope the family gets nothing, and if I were the dealer I would retract that offer and give them nothing unless I absolutely had to because of a court order.
Hell, I'd get petty and counter sue for damages......in the amount of $157.
ETA: And where the hell were the loving kids prior to the sale when the old folks were cleaning out their attic? They couldn't be bothered? They couldn't have helped guide their parents through that process? Nah, they're kicking themselves and are sick that they missed out on a windfall. They probably didn't give a damn until the money entered the picture. No personal responsibility to be found.
This post was edited on 10/5/23 at 11:02 am
Posted on 10/5/23 at 10:57 am to Baylor
In this case, the law doesn't matter one damned bit.
The couple will hire a POS Lawyer who will seek out an equally POS Judge and they will go after this man.
What the actual law says is totally irrelevant....
The couple will hire a POS Lawyer who will seek out an equally POS Judge and they will go after this man.
What the actual law says is totally irrelevant....
Posted on 10/5/23 at 11:02 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
You think the guy who hired three different appraisers who had to go so far as using carbon dating, and still missed the mark by a considerable amount, knew its value?
That's not what I said at all. I said he doesn't owe them shite unless he misrepresented or misstated something - period. Then I said fraud doesn't have to be an overt act, which you laughed at as if it were untrue, but it clearly is a cause of action. Then I said it will depend on how the transaction went down. Depending on the facts, like any case, he could owe them something or nothing.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 11:14 am to Tortious
And I'm saying it is evident that no one knew the "worth" of the item. The family knew the whole story of where it came from, they had the provenance, and had no idea its "worth". The buyer had no idea its "worth" or he wouldn't have gone to the first appraiser who clearly didn't know what they were talking about regarding "worth". The second appraiser had no clue, and as it turned out....neither did the third appraiser, but they at least verified the age and authenticity.
Given those known details, and the fact that even the old, feeble "elderly" couple knew the history of the item and named their price, I don't see where there could be fraud of any kind. Well, maybe that first appraiser did fraudulently represent themselves as an "expert".
Given those known details, and the fact that even the old, feeble "elderly" couple knew the history of the item and named their price, I don't see where there could be fraud of any kind. Well, maybe that first appraiser did fraudulently represent themselves as an "expert".
Posted on 10/5/23 at 11:19 am to Tortious
quote:
No unless dealer mislead them somehow or misrepresented something to them.
Even if he hypothetical knew it was worth $4mm (to someone else), is he on the hook? It would be one thing to misrepresent and sell someone something, but wouldn’t the onus have been on the couple to do their own due diligence?
Certainly think it would be a good and fair gesture to give them a cut, but I don’t think he “owes” then anything.
Good legal vs moral question.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 11:20 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
The buyer had no idea its "worth" or he wouldn't have gone to the first appraiser who clearly didn't know what they were talking about regarding "worth".
This isn't necessarily true. For example, if he had an established practice of just posting up shite for resale in his shop and 99 times out of 100 he just marks it up from what he paid, but this one time, he took it to an appraiser that would be something for the trier of fact to weigh has to what he knew at the time.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 11:21 am to Baylor
quote:
Should the dealer have to give the couple some of the profits ?
Downvote for even asking the question.
I would hope he helped them out with any bills they may have, but in absolutely no way is he obligated to give them a penny more than the $157 sale price they agreed on.
Maybe next time they will do their due diligence in checking on the value of their old attic stuff before possibly selling it for such a pittance.
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