re: Was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki necessary?

He cant understand the concept that

1. Japan surrendering with emperor clause

Is not the same as

2. Japan surrendering unconditionally then the US essentially pardoning the emperor after the unconditional surrender

It’s not about the ultimate outcome. It’s the optics of the situation and yes some believed that was neccessary because the Japanese people viewed the emperor as a infallible god. We had to destroy his image completely so their military dictatorship could never come back.

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have a direct quote from the head of the Allied command flat out saying the nukes weren't necessary

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Most of these military leaders, and most alternative options, are based on the status quo being maintained until Japan surrendered.

That status quo could/would have been just as deadly. We're talking about 130k civilian deaths between both bombs amid estimates of 880k total civilian deaths from military action during the war.

The best criticism of the bombs is the US's miscalculation of what drove Japan's will. It clearly wasn't civilian deaths.

We tested the first bomb and showed the Japanese the strength of the new weapon, however they did not surrender. We dropped the first bomb on Hiroshima, however they did not surrender. We dropped the second bomb on Nagasaki, however it took them something like 5-6 days to decide to finally surrender. Your theory of them wanting to surrender is complete BS.

You ever read about the Japanese Unit 731? You should read about all the sick human experiments they did to live Chinese and Russian prisoners. Given the Japanese public supported all those fricked up experimental units, was even more reason to wipe them out. The only American regrets should be that we couldn’t have dropped dozens of Atomic bombs to eradicate that country.

Here’s an example
"Infection of venereal disease by injection was abandoned, and the researchers started forcing the prisoners into sexual acts with each other. Four or five unit members, dressed in white laboratory clothing completely covering the body with only eyes and mouth visible, handled the tests. A male and female, one infected with syphilis, would be brought together in a cell and forced into sex with each other. It was made clear that anyone resisting would be shot."

The actor?

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Ultimately though I tend to think it was not the right move, but the momentum to unleash "the basic power of the universe" we'd harnessed was unstoppable.

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I understand this... And as bad as it sounds.. If we DON'T show OUR WILL AND POWER.. 9/11 may have not have happened...............

Yes you puss cake.

Weak.

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That's fair. I'm honestly not emotional or dogmatic about it either way (except to the extent that innocent people would've died either way, but yes war is hell). I just tend to think it may have been avoidable at that point in the Pacific Theater. But I wasn't there.

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I think you are absolutely right that it would be avoidable in that EVENTUALLY japan would have surrendered, but it would have taken a lot more conventional bombs or in this case Russia invading.

I just don’t think at the time we had the luxury of trusting anything the Russians would or wouldn’t do. Remember up until that time they had a nonaggression pact with japan. And the conventional vs nuclear bombs are just a non issue to me. They kill the same. It’s just psychological.

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We tested the first bomb and showed the Japanese the strength of the new weapon, however they did not surrender. We dropped the first bomb on Hiroshima, however they did not surrender. We dropped the second bomb on Nagasaki, however it took them something like 5-6 days to decide to finally surrender. Your theory of them wanting to surrender is complete BS.

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There was a cabal within the Japanese military that resisted the idea of surrender even after the second bomb. They were willing to go as far as deposing the Emperor, if necessary, to keep the war going. They were, of course, put down.