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Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:03 pm to
Posted by Yammie250F
Member since Jul 2010
1053 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

Combat is stressful and confusing. The "fog of war" and "friction" are very real. Mistakes happen, and sometimes those mistakes lead to tragedies like a short mortar round that kills a couple of Marines. It's fricking terrible, and in a lot of ways more tragic than getting killed by the enemy. But when you're operating in a high stress, high tempo environment things like this can happen. We investigate them, we make whatever changes we think we can to avoid it again, we learn lessons, and we continue on.

Truly, my biggest issue is with the journalists who look at these things with the clarity of 20 years of hindsight and act like the Marines and officers making decisions and acting on those decisions in real time were operating with the same level of clarity. And then they use THAT context to make the principals involved look malicious, evil, or stupid. They never contextualize what it is like being the ones making those decisions - mainly because they've never been the ones in the arena.




This

I was part of OIF I and was involved in two friendly fire incidents. First one was a fire mission where an LAV called in for a mission danger close. They gave us two coordinates. Thiers and the enemies. We were going to fire one round and adjust from that one but the problem was the guy giving the coordinates had mixed up his and the enemies coordinates (we later found out)so the one round we fired landed basically on top of the LAV. Luckily no one was killed but a few Marines did get lightly wounded.
The second one was when we were firing about 300 yards from a road we were shooting over. It was pitch black dark and another unit was traveling down the road and thought our firing was us shooting at them so they returned fire including a .50 cal from a 5 ton. Thank God nobody was hit, probably due to a guy in my unit who fired up a blue flare from his 203 very quickly which meant we were friendlies and they stopped firing.
Turns out (again later after the fact) it was a group from CSSB 10 (combat service support battalion) who had gotten lost and weren't even supposed to be where they were. I'll never forget the sound of the .50 cal rounds made when hitting the ground and metal, completely different then small arms.

You're first thought is anger but there isn't even time to think about it. We still had a mission to complete and like they told us its what we trained for. Fog of war is a real thing and does happen. There was no intent to kill or harm anyone in those two incidents. Just learn from it and move on.

As long as nothing illegally and intentionally happened there is absolutely no reason to bring it up years later unless its used as a training moment.
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
15400 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

I was a 60mm mortar gunner. We went in with about 600 rounds for our 2 gun section and had to get resupplied about 3 or 4 days into the battle.


What unit?
Posted by touchdownjeebus
Member since Sep 2010
26666 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:06 pm to
I was downrange, literally right down the street from this when it went down, but I’m not speaking in specifics when I I say this.

Sometimes it’s not a coverup but more about respect. You wanna go tell a momma her son was involved in friendly fire, or that her son died a hero?

I’m not making excuses, but the real world isn’t played out with words on a page or 20yrs in hindsight, and if I caught it downrange by a friendly, I would be completely okay with saying I died a hero instead.
Posted by Jobu93
Cypress TX
Member since Sep 2011
21318 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

I was in Baghdad at the time of the fighting there and immediately after the fighting my boss, an 06 at the time, and I were flown in to Fallujah for an immediate AR 15-6 Investigation. The reason? a Red Cross (a French female) worker claimed the Marines had committed war crimes by shooting all the bad guys in the head. We inspected the dead most of whom were still where they fell. She was right most had been shot in the head...at a distance. Marines are good shots, lots of range time


A good friend of mine, a Top, told me about this. Wasn’t it the case that those Marines were some of the first with ACOGs as their primary optic?
Posted by Sam Quint
Member since Sep 2022
8866 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

Sometimes it’s not a coverup but more about respect. You wanna go tell a momma her son was involved in friendly fire, or that her son died a hero? I’m not making excuses, but the real world isn’t played out with words on a page or 20yrs in hindsight, and if I caught it downrange by a friendly, I would be completely okay with saying I died a hero instead.

fricking a.
Posted by idlewatcher
Planet Arium
Member since Jan 2012
96939 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:07 pm to
Props to you guys for this. Fallujah was such an interesting and devastating battle.

Thank you all for your service
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
15400 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

but I think overall the hosts are more interested in smearing conservatives and the Marine Corps by assuming malice instead of trying to understand nuance.


Thank you for informing me about this so I don’t have to listen to this bullshite.
Posted by NPComb
Member since Jan 2019
28496 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:09 pm to
quote:


Taking Cover Podcast - Marines in Fallujah (cross posted from Politics)
quote:
There will not be a Marine Corps in 15 years. This commandant and leadership has destroyed it. Taken away all the armor and heavy weapons. Now is removing all the things that created the ethos of the Marines at the altar of DEI.

a little outside of the scope of the podcast discussion, but i agree. the Marine Corps is dead.


One of my best friends retired as a Mustang under Obama. He saw the light then. He has two kids that are Navy officers - they are bailing after their time is up.
Posted by DefensorFortis
East of Eden
Member since Jun 2022
613 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:09 pm to
Semper Fi from an Air Force brother…just watched The Great Santini again this weekend…reminded me of my Dad - a Vietnam Marine - and how there is no such Corps remaining except in tip of the spear units.
Posted by Sam Quint
Member since Sep 2022
8866 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:12 pm to
LtCol Ben Wagner was a 2ndLt platoon commander in E 2/1, and he is interviewed in the 2nd or 3rd episode. I think the world of this guy. Incidentally, he was relieved of battalion command about a year ago over some political bullshite. Great dude, great American, great Marine officer.
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
15400 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

B Co. 1st Bn 23rd Marines. Reserve unit out of Bossier city. We were attached to 3rd LAR for the operation. Ended up staying with them for the rest of our deployment spending time in Ramadi and Hit.


Holy shite, small fricking world.

I served with B Co. 1/23 2013-2019 as a 60mm mortar man.
This post was edited on 4/25/23 at 1:14 pm
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:18 pm to
I’m sure we know some of the same people.
Posted by USMCguy121
Northshore
Member since Aug 2021
6332 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:20 pm to
Agreed on everything, DIE / DEI has done some real damage to the corps from what my buddies tell me.


After active duty I finished out with Weapons in baton rouge before it got converted to a motor T unit.
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
15400 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:20 pm to
Absolutely. Pretty sure Duncan is the only one from your time up there still. Think he’s an E-8 now.
Posted by HenryParsons
Member since Aug 2018
2077 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:21 pm to
I’ll be giving this a listen. Thanks for sharing
Posted by Sam Quint
Member since Sep 2022
8866 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

Agreed on everything, DIE / DEI has done some real damage to the corps from what my buddies tell me.

the Corps is practically unrecognizable from the Corps i joined in 2007.
Posted by USMCguy121
Northshore
Member since Aug 2021
6332 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:23 pm to
Also joined in 2007. I always thought it was timeless, but I guess all of our institutions are fragile as frick at the end of the day
Posted by touchdownjeebus
Member since Sep 2010
26666 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:25 pm to
Be patient, devil dog. Sometimes this shite is cyclical. Let time take its course and a few folks get where they need to be. My Army and your Corp will see better days.

The navy will still be gay and the air force will still be a desk job, though.
Posted by Flanders
Member since May 2008
9950 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:27 pm to
quote:

GeauxxxTigers23
are you coming to hoover?
Posted by Yammie250F
Member since Jul 2010
1053 posts
Posted on 4/25/23 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

the Corps is practically unrecognizable from the Corps i joined in 2007


I was in from 2000-2004 and have been completely ignoring this talk thinking it was BS. I would always say to myself I'd love to see they guys tell the infantry at camp horno they're snowflakes etc and see how it works out for them. But like someone already said, minus the tip of the spear guys it just isn't the same.
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