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Message
re: .
Posted on 2/18/22 at 12:00 am to upgrayedd
Posted on 2/18/22 at 12:00 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Russia was told from the end of the Cold War that NATO wouldn't expand east and every US president has expanded NATO east and encroached on Russia's borders. You can't blame them for being upset with their last buffers disappearing.
The thing is that promise was given to the Soviet Union... Not the Russians by themselves. I think the breaking up of the Soviet Union and the now non-existent Warsaw Pact has nullified that promise.
2
Posted on 2/18/22 at 7:44 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
MOSCOW (AP) — A separatist leader in eastern #Ukraine announces evacuation of civilians to #Russia amid soaring tensions.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 7:46 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
The thing is that promise was given to the Soviet Union...
It was a promise made specifically to post-Soviet Russia
Posted on 2/18/22 at 7:51 am to Decatur
Russia’s lead propagandist:
quote:
@M_Simonyan
And now it looks like it's started.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:04 am to Cosmo
quote:
The Biden White House and Pentagon have seemingly been pushing for war
Either he’s war mongering or he’s soft on Putin. There’s nothing they can do to win with some of yall.
I understand not liking the guy but it least try to be fair.
This post was edited on 2/18/22 at 8:05 am
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:43 am to Decatur
quote:
quote:
MOSCOW (AP) — A separatist leader in eastern #Ukraine announces evacuation of civilians to #Russia amid soaring tensions.
Seems like the worst development to date IMO. A staged evacuation alleging the Ukranians are coming to halt it and persecute it requiring Russian forces to move into the territory to "ensure safe passage"
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:45 am to Pettifogger
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:50 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Seems like the worst development to date IMO. A staged evacuation alleging the Ukranians are coming to halt it and persecute it requiring Russian forces to move into the territory to "ensure safe passage"
Could be a bad sign. I'd be interested in who this leader is too. I hope this isn't the AP repeating rumors and unconfirmed hearsay like they always do.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:50 am to upgrayedd
That was 30 years ago. Ukraine is a free country and should be able to act as an Sovereign nation free to join whatever pact they want. We all know you want to be back in the USSR so go on scurry away and enjoy your communism. Careful not to disagree with Putin cause you'll get a one way trip out of an office building window.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:54 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Could be a bad sign. I'd be interested in who this leader is too. I hope this isn't the AP repeating rumors and unconfirmed hearsay like they always do.
I think it's from a video/interview with said leader, but not 100% sure. I've only seen the reports in passing but several had the same video clip attached to them.
Just looked, yeah, it's from a video statement released, and it looks like a couple of different separatist leaders said likewise. WSJ has the story now too.
This post was edited on 2/18/22 at 8:56 am
Posted on 2/18/22 at 8:56 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I'd be interested in who this leader is too.
Dennis Pushilin
Peskov is trying to play coy now.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:00 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I think it's from a video/interview with said leader, but not 100% sure. I've only seen the reports in passing but several had the same video clip attached to them.
Just looked, yeah, it's from a video statement released, and it looks like a couple of different separatist leaders said likewise. WSJ has the story now too.
Gotcha
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:06 am to Palantir
Doveryay, no proveryay
This post was edited on 2/18/22 at 9:08 am
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:06 am to Decatur
quote:
Peskov is trying to play coy now.
saw that
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:08 am to Palantir
quote:
Should we trust this?
It’s not a fake. I’d still take it with caution and wait to see if people start moving. It’s like 2 million people or so so that’s not something that could happen in a day.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:11 am to Decatur
It seems true that a) the request/claim is being made sufficient that b) Russians are asked about it and acknowledge it's a "thing"
Beyond that you can't really trust anything. Motivations, part of an orchestrated ruse, etc.
Beyond that you can't really trust anything. Motivations, part of an orchestrated ruse, etc.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:12 am to Palantir
quote:
Should we trust this?
Perhaps. I'm not sure if any of this info from either side is trustworthy just yet. I certainly don't think you can dismiss it.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:16 am to upgrayedd
This is out of their playbook. It’s very real. They’re going to eat Ukraine chunk by chunk bite by bite.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 9:16 am to upgrayedd
For the conventional wisdom, which was that some large scale action was probably likely but that Russia wouldn't move on Kiev or similar, this probably doesn't really tell us anything. People have just been lulled into thinking nothing may happen at all over the last week, and these moves just make that outcome seem less and less likely.
Of course, that requires you to jump ahead and assume this is more pretext being piled up for Russia. Which I think is the most sensible conclusion.
Would Putin do all that and then still sit tight? Could be. I read a handful of academic/think tank papers on Putin's options over the last couple months, and I can't specifically remember one talking about covering an evacuation. A lot that were not far off, and everyone obviously thought it would be some move to defend separatist communities, but the evacuation basis would be at least mildly clever IMO.
Of course, that requires you to jump ahead and assume this is more pretext being piled up for Russia. Which I think is the most sensible conclusion.
Would Putin do all that and then still sit tight? Could be. I read a handful of academic/think tank papers on Putin's options over the last couple months, and I can't specifically remember one talking about covering an evacuation. A lot that were not far off, and everyone obviously thought it would be some move to defend separatist communities, but the evacuation basis would be at least mildly clever IMO.
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