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Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:09 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Too bad the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. There's no reason to give up your freedom for it.
Roger, you should read the thread a little more closely, so you can keep track of what is said and what isn't. Because I offered a conditional, and you seem to have taken it as a reference to this current situation. I'd encourage you to slow down a bit, because it's a pretty bad-faith way of discussing things.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:21 am to Cortez12
Just came to DV
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:23 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Because I offered a conditional, and you seem to have taken it as a reference to this current situation
Because we were talking about the current situation.
Whats more important, freedom or individual safety?
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:27 am to Cortez12
Do you have any idea of the levels of authoritarianism Australia has done this past two years?
I mean we are talking full lockdowns for months and months at a time, have to download an app so they can track you, if you leave your house for almost any reason except a few you can be arrested, be arrested for refusing to wear a mask, you can be sent to what are essentially concentration camps if you are a CLOSE CONTACT of someone that tested positive, even if you tested negative.
It is insane and even as shitty as parts of America have become, could not happen here.
I mean we are talking full lockdowns for months and months at a time, have to download an app so they can track you, if you leave your house for almost any reason except a few you can be arrested, be arrested for refusing to wear a mask, you can be sent to what are essentially concentration camps if you are a CLOSE CONTACT of someone that tested positive, even if you tested negative.
It is insane and even as shitty as parts of America have become, could not happen here.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:29 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Because we were talking about the current situation.
Centinal and I were having in which I clearly described a conditional. Applying what I say in that conditional to this current situation isn't exactly honest.
quote:
Whats more important, freedom or individual safety?
Human freedom is paramount. But if a person is so stuck to their principles so much so that they could possibly eventually limit their own freedom, I have to question the utility of that approach.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:30 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
It is insane and even as shitty as parts of America have become, could not happen here.
I prefer to make my own decisions regarding my health, unfortunately there's quite a few people here who disagree with that sentiment. There are a lot of people in this country who would love Aussie type authoritarianism.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:31 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
If you think your own individual rights supersede everyone else's, then I can't get on board with that degree of selfishness. There isn't even an evolutionary argument you can use in this instance.
Did you miss the part where I said you can educate, suggest, incentivize, etc.?
I have a right to leave my house and visit my family. Now in your rather hyperbolic scenario, that would spell my and my family's death more than likely. But that's still my right to visit, and there's to have me visit. The government simply has no right, under any circumstance, to limit when and where I can go with my family. Ever.
quote:
Great, but I'm talking about this particular situation where a lockdown was actually used.
And I answered you. I mean were you fishing for me to try and defend Trump's reasons for a lock down because you think I'm sympathetic to him politically?
quote:
You are overstating the effect the medical community had and understating what actually happened.
The medical community had an effect because they gave the government justification to do what they did. They had the light shone on them by the media, were proclaimed heroes, and went on to double down on recommendations that ended up doing far more harm to this country than good.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:32 am to Cortez12
We are counting every death and hospital visit as covid.
Plus early on every time theyd lift the boot up their cases would skyrocket then go back to lock downs.
You cant just hide from a virus.
Plus early on every time theyd lift the boot up their cases would skyrocket then go back to lock downs.
You cant just hide from a virus.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:33 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
. But if a person is so stuck to their principles so much so that they could possibly eventually limit their own freedom,
Its not up to you to decide what constitutes freedom in another individual
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:34 am to Centinel
quote:
The medical community had an effect because they gave the government justification to do what they did.
Political pressure is driving the issue, and the medical community has been a huge proponent..
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:35 am
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:35 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
If you think your own individual rights supersede everyone else's, then I can't get on board with that degree of selfishness.
They do. We dont have rights as a group but as individuals.
Me being a man, woman, being white, being an LSU fan, etc.. doesnt give me rights. Being an individual does.
Me making a personal choice of not taking a vaccine that doesnt work doesnt interfere with your right as an individual and is not selfish.
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:38 am
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:36 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
But if a person is so stuck to their principles so much so that they could possibly eventually limit their own freedom, I have to question the utility of that approach.
And you can question that approach. But you can not, under any circumstance, prohibit that approach through force. No matter how much good you think you are doing for that person.
Individual freedom is the most important thing we have as humans. Even if it means that individual freedom allows to make choices that will kill us.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:36 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
If you think your own individual rights supersede everyone else's, then I can't get on board with that degree of selfishness.
Do you support limiting the speed limit to 20 MPH? Anything over that is selfish.
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:37 am
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:38 am to Centinel
quote:
Individual freedom is the most important thing we have as humans. Even if it means that individual freedom allows to make choices that will kill us.
Bingo.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:39 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I mean we are talking full lockdowns for months and months at a time, have to download an app so they can track you, if you leave your house for almost any reason except a few you can be arrested, be arrested for refusing to wear a mask, you can be sent to what are essentially concentration camps if you are a CLOSE CONTACT of someone that tested positive, even if you tested negative.
My buddy and his wife live there and this is EXACTLY what is happening. They’re literally frightened that if they mess up they’ll end up in one of those camps w/o their kids.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:40 am to Centinel
quote:
I mean were you fishing for me to try and defend Trump's reasons for a lock down because you think I'm sympathetic to him politically?
Because your recollection of how things went down gives a lot more credit to the medical community than it deserves?
quote:
The medical community had an effect because they gave the government justification to do what they did.
I mean, the government and governments have never needed an excuse before. Yet in this situation, the excuse is based on very specific advice from a small group of medical professionals that somehow reflects on all medical professionals? It seems like people want to blame the medical community primarily, and I don't think that's the way it went down. And the post-hoc excuse that the government did it to gain power is really rich, given actual things our government has done since 2000.
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:42 am
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:42 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Do you have any idea of the levels of authoritarianism Australia has done this past two years?
I mean we are talking full lockdowns for months and months at a time, have to download an app so they can track you, if you leave your house for almost any reason except a few you can be arrested, be arrested for refusing to wear a mask, you can be sent to what are essentially concentration camps if you are a CLOSE CONTACT of someone that tested positive, even if you tested negative.
It is insane and even as shitty as parts of America have become, could not happen here.
Does anyone have an data for the AUS GDP?
I just don't see how they're going to afford this
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:44 am to Centinel
quote:
Individual freedom is the most important thing we have as humans. Even if it means that individual freedom allows to make choices that will kill us.
Utterly suicidal.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:47 am to dgnx6
quote:
Me making a personal choice of not taking a vaccine that doesnt work doesnt interfere with your right as an individual and is not selfish.
Covidians don't see it that way. They've been forcefully told you are selfish.
Without seeing the irony of that idea.
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