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re: Thoughts? Not trying to defend Australia but seems like they are doing something right
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:24 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:24 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Using a lockdown now with a more mild but infectious variant such as Omicron is more likely to get things 'back to normal' than any of the strategies we've used so far.
Wut?
0
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:25 am to Centinel
quote:
Lockdowns, by government mandate, are *never* the answer. Period.
Not even for a respiratory pathogen, such as pneumonic Plague, which would have an CFR of near 100%?
In terms of using lockdowns situationally, in the context of a larger pandemic response, my argument is sound. It's personal principles that people object to, but that wasn't the purview of the discussion, and changing the frame is a bit disingenuous.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:27 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:CDC director admitted yesterday that 75% of US covid deaths had 4 or more comorbiditiesquote:
quote:
U.S.A - 836,000 deaths and counting
I'm sure most of these deaths have other complications than covid. Probably 3/4
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:32 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Not even for a respiratory pathogen, such as pneumonic Plague, which would have an CFR of near 100%?
Yes.
quote:
In terms of using lockdowns situationally, in the context of a larger pandemic response, my argument is sound.
Only from a purely medical point of view. And that's the problem. Using government power to force people to stay in their homes, not visit family members, close their business, etc. is not a medical decision. It is far larger than that.
quote:
but that wasn't the purview of the discussion
It is most certainly the purview of the discussion.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:38 am to Centinel
quote:
Yes
I think that's straight up insanity.
quote:
Only from a purely medical point of view. And that's the problem. Using government power to force people to stay in their homes, not visit family members, close their business, etc. is not a medical decision. It is far larger than that.
Well my POV is strictly medical. But the final decision shouldn't be a strictly medical one. I don't even think the initial lockdown response was medical, as much of that was driven by a response to the stock market.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:44 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
I think that's straight up insanity.
I think using the jackboot of the government to confine people to their homes, close businesses, etc. is straight up insanity. Individual liberty trumps everything. As I said, you provide information, you suggest courses of action, you can even incentivize those courses of actions. But never do you force.
quote:
Well my POV is strictly medical. But the final decision shouldn't be a strictly medical one.
The problem is many of the most outspoken medical folks in the media right now very much think it should be. And the politicians are using them to justify their draconian actions.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:48 am to Centinel
quote:
Only from a purely medical point of view.
Medically, an isolation of at risk people would have been proper, if you discount mental health.
There's a reason we don't consult only one segment of society for these decisions though. Our policy makers don't quite understand that.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:50 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Our policy makers don't quite understand that.
Oh they understand it very well. The medical community gave them the perfect excuse to do what they did. And are still doing.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:51 am to Cortez12
Use deductive reasoning next time.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:53 am to Tiger Prawn
quote:
CDC director admitted yesterday that 75% of US covid deaths had 4 or more comorbidities
I imagine comorbidities for the flu is similar.
Healthy people don't usually die after a bout with the flu either.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:53 am to Centinel
quote:
The medical community gave them the perfect excuse to do what they did.
Its the policy makers fault for choosing only to listen to the medical community.
I don't blame "science" I blame policy makers.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:54 am to beerJeep
quote:
The gig is up, oweo. You can pretend to be a biker all you want but we know how many wheels you really have
I believe I’ve provided ample evidence of my biker days (I’ve long since had to retire from that life due to health) and if any doubt remains I’ll gladly provide proof to respell this absurd notion. Just please do not include me with that stunted little worthless shite stain OweO.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:55 am to Centinel
quote:
I think using the jackboot of the government to confine people to their homes, close businesses, etc. is straight up insanity. Individual liberty trumps everything
In the situation described, with a pathogen with a 100% CFR, individual liberty doesn't mean much.
quote:
The problem is many of the most outspoken medical folks in the media right now very much think it should be
While true, it's also true that Trump wasn't interested in any lockdown response until there were possible economic repercussions. If there's any blame to lay, where should it be?
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:58 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
individual liberty doesn't mean much.
This is where your medical knowledge jumps the shark.
Sorry, individual freedom is paramount and people should be able to choose how they want to treat themselves.
When "medical" people are telling me that my individual freedom doesn't mean much, I instantly recognize they have become political extremists, not medical professionals. Your vaccine does not prevent transmission, my freedom means more to me than yours does to you.
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:00 am
Posted on 1/11/22 at 9:58 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
In the situation described, with a pathogen with a 100% CFR, individual liberty doesn't mean much.
It most certainly does.
quote:
If there's any blame to lay, where should it be?
Any government official, no matter what party, no matter what level of government, who advocates a lockdown of any type. Individual liberty trumps safety. Always.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:02 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This is where your medical knowledge jumps the shark.
The pathogen described assures death for people it infects. Human immunology is such that again, we are connected and have no choice. In that situation, where death is assured if you catch it, that might justify a 'zero-pathogen' approach.
quote:
When "medical" people are telling me that my individual freedom doesn't mean much, I instantly recognize they have become political extremists, not medical professionals.
Thank god I didn't say that. Read the thread.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:04 am to Centinel
quote:
In the situation described, with a pathogen with a 100% CFR, individual liberty doesn't mean much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It most certainly does.
Yep.
Screw the "medical professional" authoritarians. Just more indoctrination. They need licenses revoked.
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:05 am
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:05 am to Centinel
quote:
It most certainly does.
We disagree. You have the right to die, if you want, but again, human immunology connects us together. If you think your own individual rights supersede everyone else's, then I can't get on board with that degree of selfishness. There isn't even an evolutionary argument you can use in this instance.
quote:
Any government official, no matter what party, no matter what level of government, who advocates a lockdown of any type. Individual liberty trumps safety. Always.
Great, but I'm talking about this particular situation where a lockdown was actually used. You are overstating the effect the medical community had and understating what actually happened.
Posted on 1/11/22 at 10:07 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
human immunology connects us together
Too bad the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. There's no reason to give up your freedom for it.
This post was edited on 1/11/22 at 10:08 am
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