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re: "they look like they just came from the fields" - racist?
Posted on 11/3/15 at 1:24 pm to fr33manator
Posted on 11/3/15 at 1:24 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Why do people think that only slaves picked cotton? It's patently false.
There has been a lot of cotton picked since 1865 - and it was done by a lot of poor people, black and white. "Sharecroppers" I think they were called, until machines largely replaced them.
People forget how manpower intensive it was - a good cotton picking machine wasn't widely used until the Depression.
Ironically, a machine (the Whitney Gin) made the very labor-intensive act of cotton farming economically feasible in the 19th century. But a machine didn't free man from the labor until over 100 years later (thus, slavery was continued to feed those gins.)
Which is another reason why I bristle at Southern white folks in the 21st century have to bear all the negative stigma of slavery. EVERYBODY was using American cotton in the first half of the 19th century - Europe (particularly England) and the Yankees - their linen mills absolutely required the cotton that slaves were producing in the Cotton Belt. Everyone benefitted from it and the slaveowners were a convenient and visible scapegoat - who obviously deserved their portion of the fault and, collectively, were responsible for the direct abuses of that peculiar institution.
But, they weren't alone - they weren't holding slaves and producing cotton for their own amusement, that's for certain.
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Posted on 11/3/15 at 1:30 pm to JJBTiger2012
I understand that if slavery was a part of your family and whatnot, that you'd be way more concerned with and knowledgable about slavery here in America. And that's fine, and understandable. But I feel like race relations would be better in America if people just knew the history of slavery all around the world. Instead of having a broad hate for the institution of slavery, I feel like people focus all of their hate and resentment on American whites living right now...which is ridiculous IMO.
This post was edited on 11/3/15 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:04 pm to ReauxlTide222
well tbh I think knowing about indentured servants and all types of slaves across the world is good... but don't present from a lense of .. "see this wasn't just happening in America..It's not like we were totally insane for doing this... I mean come on, everyone was doing it."
Then there's the line your mother told you...everyone was doing it...doesn't make it right....
So I don't think knowing or being made aware of the institution of slavery in other parts of the world would change the way the American descendant of slaves views it at all.
Then there's the line your mother told you...everyone was doing it...doesn't make it right....
So I don't think knowing or being made aware of the institution of slavery in other parts of the world would change the way the American descendant of slaves views it at all.
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:10 pm to gatorguru
quote:
Then there's the line your mother told you...everyone was doing it...doesn't make it right....
No, but if everyone in the world is using a system is labor it's a bit stupid to handicap yourself for reason of sentiments that didn't widely exist at the time.
Just accept that the world is a shitty place.
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:12 pm to TDsngumbo
Depends on intent....which I can't gauge.
So, do you intend for it to be racist or not?
So, do you intend for it to be racist or not?
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:20 pm to fr33manator
quote:
No, but if everyone in the world is using a system is labor it's a bit stupid to handicap yourself for reason of sentiments that didn't widely exist at the time.
Think about it like this. Everyone uses these chinese sweatshops to produce goods. It's technically legal. Conditions deplorable. Pay is little to none. (AND NO I'M NOT COMPARING IT TO SLAVERY)
Use your own moral compass. Slaves were unhappy with the conditions and they were forced and beaten if they didn't work or tried to become free men. Treated like animals. Just accept that the world is a great place. And some People have shitty moral compasses.
It is asinine that you almost made an excuse for slavery. Maybe you should be the one reading and learning more about it
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:27 pm to TDsngumbo
No
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:29 pm to gatorguru
I've done far more research than you about all sorts of different kinds of slavery throughout history across the globe.
Was it "right"? Depends on the standards of right and wrong you are using. You shouldn't use modern sensibilities to condemn the past. It's asinine.
And, if you were a student of history, you'd realize that American Chattel slavery, as a whole, was a damn Sunday picnic compared to the brutality involved in slavery in the rest of the world.
Doesn't make it "right" but by comparison it was far more preferable.
Was it "right"? Depends on the standards of right and wrong you are using. You shouldn't use modern sensibilities to condemn the past. It's asinine.
And, if you were a student of history, you'd realize that American Chattel slavery, as a whole, was a damn Sunday picnic compared to the brutality involved in slavery in the rest of the world.
Doesn't make it "right" but by comparison it was far more preferable.
Posted on 11/3/15 at 2:49 pm to fr33manator
very good response. thorough and shows your knowledge on the situation.
Let me ask you this, as a historian, it seems like you take a complete objective view of historical events. Meaning historical figures that most see as vile, terrible persons or practices, you look at things from their perspective. Total assumption, let me know if I'm right or wrong.
You may read about Hitler and try to find his rationale and make sense of his behavior. Or even see Kim Jong Un as someone who is like the Steve Jobs of military weaponery and solely seeks to see modern advancements in the way of weapons of mass destruction.
The problem with this is, evil, immoral, criminal, lewd acts can always be explained or rationalized when viewed from the right or wrong perspective.
Why on earth would someone rob a bank and kill 3 people in the process?
"Well you see they were behind on their bills and facing eviction and cancer medical bills and they had to do anything they could to support their family. you can't judge him based on modern sensibilities."
Why would people hijack planes and crash them into a building?
" well ..umm...well..." the point is...no matter how much time passes between some events, right is right and wrong is wrong. It was wrong then and it's wrong today.
Let me ask you this, as a historian, it seems like you take a complete objective view of historical events. Meaning historical figures that most see as vile, terrible persons or practices, you look at things from their perspective. Total assumption, let me know if I'm right or wrong.
You may read about Hitler and try to find his rationale and make sense of his behavior. Or even see Kim Jong Un as someone who is like the Steve Jobs of military weaponery and solely seeks to see modern advancements in the way of weapons of mass destruction.
The problem with this is, evil, immoral, criminal, lewd acts can always be explained or rationalized when viewed from the right or wrong perspective.
Why on earth would someone rob a bank and kill 3 people in the process?
"Well you see they were behind on their bills and facing eviction and cancer medical bills and they had to do anything they could to support their family. you can't judge him based on modern sensibilities."
Why would people hijack planes and crash them into a building?
" well ..umm...well..." the point is...no matter how much time passes between some events, right is right and wrong is wrong. It was wrong then and it's wrong today.
Posted on 11/3/15 at 3:03 pm to gatorguru
quote:
me ask you this, as a historian, it seems like you take a complete objective view of historical events. Meaning historical figures that most see as vile, terrible persons or practices, you look at things from their perspective. Total assumption, let me know if I'm right or wrong.
I look at things from a logical, objective perspective. Not a moral one. Not one judged by any modern standards. I don't make excuses for historical figures because there isn't a need to excuse them. They are dead and all that lives on is the effects that their actions brought about.
Could you deem people as "evil"? Sure. You are free to do so. But what good does their subjective morality play in their historical role?
I find Dan Carlin fascinating. His view is very removed, very objective and extremely well thought out.
He brings up the point that the movers and shakers throught history have rarely been peaceful figures. Ghengis Khan was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people. In some of the most brutal ways imaginable. Yet his conquests may have very well saved Europe from being overtaken by Muslims. (Even though Europe was terrorized by the Mongol Horde as well.)
The thing is...you can't say that Ghengis Khan wasn't a GREAT leader...in objective terms. Great meaning terrible, awesome, important. He changed so much, and to his people he certainly was worthy of praise.
I don't think you need to agree or empathize with any historical figure to recognize and respect the change they wrought on the world. Great men are almost always bad men. Men of their time.
We stand on the shoulders of killers, rapists, thieves, slavers and bigots. It was men who were willing to be brutal that pioneered, that conquered. We are allowed to be peaceful because they were violent, and one day, we will be called to violence again.
Posted on 11/3/15 at 3:07 pm to TDsngumbo
White people picked cotton too.
Elvis Presley's mother picked cotton when his father went to prison for fraud.
Elvis Presley's mother picked cotton when his father went to prison for fraud.
Posted on 11/3/15 at 3:08 pm to TDsngumbo
it might offend Mexicans...but they aren't too sensitive so its ok
Posted on 11/3/15 at 3:21 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:first thing I thought of.
it might offend Mexicans...but they aren't too sensitive so its ok
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