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re: The Tesla Model Y was the best selling vehicle overall in California in June
Posted on 8/2/23 at 1:43 pm to CleverUserName
Posted on 8/2/23 at 1:43 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
Care to compare Louisiana and Mississippi education scores?
That's a cripple fight rivaled only my Oweo vs Owlfan.
2
Posted on 8/2/23 at 1:48 pm to BeepNode
quote:
These are political and corporate problems, not technical or engineering problems.
You almost directly quoted the politcal hack in "Atlas Shrugged"
...that's fricking depressing.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 1:49 pm to billjamin
quote:
That's a cripple fight rivaled only my Oweo vs Owlfan.
That depends upon the inclusion of private school test scores.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 2:08 pm to rickgrimes
Doesn't matter. They'll look like Hanoi in 25 years.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 2:19 pm to billjamin
quote:
That's a cripple fight rivaled only my Oweo vs Owlfan.
Just askin.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 2:45 pm to shel311
EV's totaled more
and another
"There’s no truly equivalent part in a gasoline-powered car. A new engine is expensive. But millions of auto mechanics around the world know how to replace the parts of an engine. So, a minor accident rarely damages an engine so badly that the entire unit needs replacement.
When an EV battery takes minor damage, however, repairing it is sometimes out of the question.
Some automakers like Ford and General Motors “have made battery packs easier to repair,” Reuters explains. Technicians can sometimes replace individual cells or place the working ones in a new casing for less than the cost of a new battery.
But Tesla “has taken the opposite tack” with its Texas-built Model Y, whose new structural battery pack has been described by experts as having “zero repairability,” Reuters says.
“A Tesla structural battery pack is going straight to the grinder,” explains Sandy Munro, an engineer whose company tears down new cars and advises automakers on improving designs. Munro has become a prominent Tesla advocate on social media, we should note."
Batteries are recyclable?
"Most components of lithium-ion batteries can be recycled, but the cost of material recovery remains a challenge for the industry. The U.S. Department of Energy is also supporting the Lithium-Ion Battery Recycling Prize to develop and demonstrate profitable solutions for collecting, sorting, storing, and transporting spent and discarded lithium-ion batteries for eventual recycling and materials recovery. "
read that as not profitable, so gov subside incoming
so we have to give out money to solve the problem
but lead acid bad!
"This Battery Recycling Prize is NOT for lead-acid batteries as currently a vast recycling supply chain collects, stores, transports, recycles, and re-introduces more than 99% of lead back into the lead-acid battery supply chain."
recycling reality
"There, the Toronto-based company Li-Cycle breaks the batteries down into “black mass” — a dark, shredded mess of copper, cobalt, nickel, and lithium that without further processing is as useful as shiny dirt. That is, until most of it is shipped to factories in other countries to separate it into the valuable raw materials that both auto and electronics manufacturers need to build new batteries."
to other countries? who could that be?
and another
"There’s no truly equivalent part in a gasoline-powered car. A new engine is expensive. But millions of auto mechanics around the world know how to replace the parts of an engine. So, a minor accident rarely damages an engine so badly that the entire unit needs replacement.
When an EV battery takes minor damage, however, repairing it is sometimes out of the question.
Some automakers like Ford and General Motors “have made battery packs easier to repair,” Reuters explains. Technicians can sometimes replace individual cells or place the working ones in a new casing for less than the cost of a new battery.
But Tesla “has taken the opposite tack” with its Texas-built Model Y, whose new structural battery pack has been described by experts as having “zero repairability,” Reuters says.
“A Tesla structural battery pack is going straight to the grinder,” explains Sandy Munro, an engineer whose company tears down new cars and advises automakers on improving designs. Munro has become a prominent Tesla advocate on social media, we should note."
Batteries are recyclable?
"Most components of lithium-ion batteries can be recycled, but the cost of material recovery remains a challenge for the industry. The U.S. Department of Energy is also supporting the Lithium-Ion Battery Recycling Prize to develop and demonstrate profitable solutions for collecting, sorting, storing, and transporting spent and discarded lithium-ion batteries for eventual recycling and materials recovery. "
read that as not profitable, so gov subside incoming
so we have to give out money to solve the problem
but lead acid bad!
"This Battery Recycling Prize is NOT for lead-acid batteries as currently a vast recycling supply chain collects, stores, transports, recycles, and re-introduces more than 99% of lead back into the lead-acid battery supply chain."
recycling reality
"There, the Toronto-based company Li-Cycle breaks the batteries down into “black mass” — a dark, shredded mess of copper, cobalt, nickel, and lithium that without further processing is as useful as shiny dirt. That is, until most of it is shipped to factories in other countries to separate it into the valuable raw materials that both auto and electronics manufacturers need to build new batteries."
to other countries? who could that be?
Posted on 8/2/23 at 2:54 pm to dr
quote:
Batteries are recyclable?
Big misunderstood topic. We don't need recycling at any significant volume for decades. Used EV BESS units will be grid connected and ride out the rest of their lives there and get recycled when the degradation is so high they're completely useless.
I'd be happy to discuss this in depth later but i have to go pick up my kid from camp now.
This post was edited on 8/2/23 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 8/2/23 at 5:46 pm to billjamin
regarding VPP and the like - some questions if I may
1. Are the power sources envisioned something like a powerwall or does it include vehicles that are charging? I assume residential areas are included.
2. Who controls the drawing down of the power source - ie when, how much, minimum energy left in the source? Is it the homeowner, the power company, the state regulatory agency or ?
3. For a given region or energy district/grid, does it require a minimum level of stored energy available to be really be viable and mitigate power issues on the grid? Perhaps as a percentage of "required" baseline power (may not be the right terms).
4. What assumptions are made on duration of using the dispersed energy sources? Seems it might help for limited brownout type conditions but beyond some point, the stored energy would be depleted or reach some minimum level where the providers (eg homeowners) would not want to go below.
5. Is the thought that these stored energy sources all have the ability to "refill" themselves via solar or wind? Be interesting to see how many EV owners have their own energy source sufficient to refill a battery bank or charger their vehicle, esp if they just contributed alot of their stored energy to the grid.
I am looking at this from an implementation perspective. it seems to rely on certain level of participation (hopefully voluntary but given current administration's energy policies, i could see like-minded future administrations being coercive).
I see lots of expectations for future implementation but we know how those can turn out...
1. Are the power sources envisioned something like a powerwall or does it include vehicles that are charging? I assume residential areas are included.
2. Who controls the drawing down of the power source - ie when, how much, minimum energy left in the source? Is it the homeowner, the power company, the state regulatory agency or ?
3. For a given region or energy district/grid, does it require a minimum level of stored energy available to be really be viable and mitigate power issues on the grid? Perhaps as a percentage of "required" baseline power (may not be the right terms).
4. What assumptions are made on duration of using the dispersed energy sources? Seems it might help for limited brownout type conditions but beyond some point, the stored energy would be depleted or reach some minimum level where the providers (eg homeowners) would not want to go below.
5. Is the thought that these stored energy sources all have the ability to "refill" themselves via solar or wind? Be interesting to see how many EV owners have their own energy source sufficient to refill a battery bank or charger their vehicle, esp if they just contributed alot of their stored energy to the grid.
I am looking at this from an implementation perspective. it seems to rely on certain level of participation (hopefully voluntary but given current administration's energy policies, i could see like-minded future administrations being coercive).
I see lots of expectations for future implementation but we know how those can turn out...
Posted on 8/2/23 at 6:15 pm to YNWA
quote:
YNWA
quote:
Made in China too. Being looked into because they are failing miserably.
Made in Fremont, California.
The Chinese made models are for sale in foreign markets.
And yeah, their main Chinese competitors are kicking their asses in those markets.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 6:16 pm to TigersnJeeps
quote:
1. Are the power sources envisioned something like a powerwall or does it include vehicles that are charging? I assume residential areas are included.
It'll launch with PowerWall and Franklin type batteries. EV storage export will come along later, that might require some hardware at the house or possibly review and authorization by the utility since you're essentially interconnecting a power plant. The home ESS will already have had all that done.
quote:
Who controls the drawing down of the power source - ie when, how much, minimum energy left in the source? Is it the homeowner, the power company, the state regulatory agency or ?
Whoever the VPP administrator is in conjunction with the utility. Also the terms will either be fixed in the customer contract or variable via an app. The favorability of the terms obviously changes depending on how much control you want to give up. There hasn't been a ton of commercial negotiations so the market is still finding itself.
quote:
3. For a given region or energy district/grid, does it require a minimum level of stored energy available to be really be viable and mitigate power issues on the grid? Perhaps as a percentage of "required" baseline power (may not be the right terms).
Not really. I'm of the opinion that anything helps. The infrastructure needed isn't all that regionally specific so it's not like you have a huge start up cost for each area. You basically need to come to terms with the utility and build some APIs into their system and let it roll. I'm simplifying it's not back breaking or massively expensive to where you would need a large number of kWh to have it make sense.
quote:Thats probably a better question for someone within the utility that would be deciding which assets to deploy, when and how much. I'm not really up to speed on how they would plan that out. I would imagine they would look at a bunch of factors and determine if they want to cycle them to preserve state of charge or just big power dump to load stabilize.
4. What assumptions are made on duration of using the dispersed energy sources? Seems it might help for limited brownout type conditions but beyond some point, the stored energy would be depleted or reach some minimum level where the providers (eg homeowners) would not want to go below.
quote:I think thats the ideal setup, but it's not required and off peak charging is still lucrative if managed properly.
5. Is the thought that these stored energy sources all have the ability to "refill" themselves via solar or wind?
quote:It's not a ton right now, although I am one of those people. You need a shite ton of solar to purely charge an EV, but it's possible. We have a 40kW system in west texas at my wife's place. I got a beta bi-directional EV charger that runs off the PV so we texted by SILs model Y (we don't bring my wife's model 3 out there because i like having my GX to hunt pigs) and we charged it from almost empty, then shut the PowerWalls down and ran the houses off her car for a while. It was pretty sweet and worked quite well but i'll say the transition isn't as millisecond instantaneous as when the PowerWalls take over.
Be interesting to see how many EV owners have their own energy source sufficient to refill a battery bank or charger their vehicle, esp if they just contributed alot of their stored energy to the grid.
quote:
I am looking at this from an implementation perspective. it seems to rely on certain level of participation (hopefully voluntary but given current administration's energy policies, i could see like-minded future administrations being coercive).
Participation is everything. The tech is actually the easy part now. Financially it works out pretty well and there are a lot of options from owning your own equipment to leasing it. I think we'll see continued incentives like residential solar but no mandates.
quote:It's always a bit of a crap shoot, but this one seems to make sense. It'll just take some time in some areas.
I see lots of expectations for future implementation but we know how those can turn out...
Posted on 8/2/23 at 6:17 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
Posted by Message
SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
California going in the wrong direction for literally everything
Coming from a resident of the most garbage state in the Union, I'll not comment on the attendant irony.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 7:35 pm to billjamin
Thank you for your answers.
Seems that like many things, these powerwalls or equivalents will start with the higher income brackets who can afford those then as they become widespread, per unit cost will drop where less affluent (middle America) will have some capacity of power storage.
here in FL, i see more and more solar (door-to-door salesman everywhere) but I don't hear much about Powerwalls etc.
I suspect it will be some time and it will not be as fast as politicians will try to force....
If this EV expansion was more organic vs government edict, I think the resistance would be less...
My $0.02 and probably worth half that.
Seems that like many things, these powerwalls or equivalents will start with the higher income brackets who can afford those then as they become widespread, per unit cost will drop where less affluent (middle America) will have some capacity of power storage.
here in FL, i see more and more solar (door-to-door salesman everywhere) but I don't hear much about Powerwalls etc.
I suspect it will be some time and it will not be as fast as politicians will try to force....
If this EV expansion was more organic vs government edict, I think the resistance would be less...
My $0.02 and probably worth half that.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 8:00 pm to CleverUserName
quote:15th excluding major events.
And the average Frequency of averages is a 23rd ranking. Middle of the pack.
quote:Including major events, sure. Keep in mind that includes some of the worst wildfires California has seen.
Buuuut.. the complete average of all factors, it’s, again, in the bottom half at 33.
quote:Some are, some are not. It depends on the size of the state and availability of energy sources. As it happens, though, your example of a very reliable provider in the TVA has quite a diverse mix of sources.
Are the others ranked ahead more “diverse”?
quote:This is the definition of cherry-picking data (and you have a problem with me pointing out that California's grid reliability is not bad at all excluding major events?). You have chosen an area which I will be generous in saying covers a million people, and you think that is "significant" in the context of California. I can draw about 40 shapes in California that are more significant than that. Or, if you prefer, your area is generously 12k square miles and I can draw 12 regions in California more significant than that. Get some perspective.
Sorry. But the entergy part of the state isn’t getting support from me.
Posted on 8/2/23 at 8:09 pm to CleverUserName
quote:The entire state of Mississippi is barely of significant size in the context of this conversation. And as we've seen, their grid reliability is abysmal even excluding major events.
“Show me this! Bet you can’t!”
*shows*
“You can’t use that!! Doesn’t meet my definition!!! You stooopid!!!!”
You have also not even attempted to prove your assertion that the TVA portion of the grid is extremely reliable. TVA covers the entire state of Tennessee, yes? According to your data Tennessee's grid is less reliable than California's.
quote:Still fail to see what their generation capacity has to do with reliability. Please check back in the future.
“This state will be a lot better grid wise in 5 years!!!
*shows capacity dropping and trending down
Posted on 8/2/23 at 8:23 pm to TigersnJeeps
quote:
Seems that like many things, these powerwalls or equivalents will start with the higher income brackets who can afford those then as they become widespread, per unit cost will drop where less affluent (middle America) will have some capacity of power storage.
Yeah that’s exactly right, it’ll get better. We’re really still in the early adopter phase of home storage but it’ll take a bit because they’re fighting for the same cells as EVs.
quote:
here in FL, i see more and more solar (door-to-door salesman everywhere) but I don't hear much about Powerwalls etc.
Those guys suck. If you ever consider going solar email me at username @ gmail. I’ve financed a shite load of resi solar and know who some of the better guys are. frick 90% of those guys. Really the only value prop in Fl for storage is backup and it’s just pricey. I think it’s better than a generator from an economic perspective ht it’s a complex ROI and most people don’t want to think that hard about it.
quote:yeah the mandates and all that suck balls. I’m generally ok with consumer facing tax rebates to provoke investment and drive technology innovation, but mandates and underhanded standards that have downstream impacts are bullshite.
I suspect it will be some time and it will not be as fast as politicians will try to force.... If this EV expansion was more organic vs government edict, I think the resistance would be less...
This post was edited on 8/2/23 at 8:25 pm
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