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re: The most misunderstood, and misapplied word in the English language is “repent”

Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:10 pm to
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
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Member since Aug 2013
9470 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

Putting their faith in religion rather than Christ alone


The Scripture literally says they believed in Christ. Were they saved?

Everyone of those OT heroes acted on their faith, which is what actual faith is. It's an action verb.

quote:

It isn’t about our good deeds, or the law, as that is to show us our need for a redeemer. It’s about Jesus, and what He accomplished.

Correct, we can't do enough good to get ourselves to heaven, but God has always, always required obedience and fidelity.

quote:

and by Faith alone.


Not found in Scripture. The "all you have to do is believe" doctrine is just as detrimental as Calvinism as has condemned many to torment.

Paul even said he was called to be an Apostle to bring about the obedience of faith to the Gentiles. It's not just about believing Jesus was who he said he was, it's about believing in Him and about what he promises those that take up their cross and follow him. Many conflate meritorious works with an obedient faith.

eta: How do you feel about the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus could have just said "believe in me" and took a nap.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 1:13 pm
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
21220 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

Correct, we can't do enough good to get ourselves to heaven, but God has always, always required obedience and fidelity.

Therein lies the rub.

But perhaps we trust in Christ's perfect obedience since ours isn't good enough.

Or, every knee will bow anyway and all will be reconciled through Christ.
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
9470 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

But perhaps we trust in Christ's perfect obedience since ours isn't good enough.


He's our only hope. If you get down to it, it's His perfect faith we are saved by, not ours.

ETA: The we're saved by faith and not works crowd don't understand that faith is a work.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 1:20 pm
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
9470 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

Or, every knee will bow anyway and all will be reconciled through Christ.


Every knee will bow, but unfortunately Jesus will say to some "depart from me, I know thee not".
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
13944 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:23 pm to
The most misunderstood, and misapplied word in the English language is “hero”

/thread
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
60808 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

Not found in Scripture. The "all you have to do is believe" doctrine is just as detrimental as Calvinism as has condemned many to torment.

Paul even said he was called to be an Apostle to bring about the obedience of faith to the Gentiles. It's not just about believing Jesus was who he said he was, it's about believing in Him and about what he promises those that take up their cross and follow him. Many conflate meritorious works with an obedient faith.

eta: How do you feel about the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus could have just said "believe in me" and took a nap.



It actually is found in scripture. When you put your full faith in Christ as conditional for your salvation He saves you because He is the way, the truth and the life, not you. You desperately do not earn it or deserve it. It is a gift from God to mankind. The thief understood this and put his faith in Christ and was saved because of it. He saw himself and knew his righteousness was hot garbage and deserved the cross, then saw Christ and knew He was who He said He is and absolutely did not deserve it, and so put his faith in Him by asking Him to remember him, to which Christ told him He would. That’s putting your faith in Christ alone and not your righteousness. Following after Christ is discipleship, not salvation, and it takes on many forms, all resulting in people rejecting you for standing for Christ, going against the grain and people hating you for Christ’s sake, not your own, ridiculing your for your witness, etc, and if believing was easy, everyone would do it, but instead insert the law into the mix, as well as self, and yet neither have the ability to save you, Jesus does, but pride and religiosity have been plaguing mankind for all of his existence because we want our righteousness to play a part. God says otherwise, and is the very reason He sent His son into the world.

quote:

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:5



Whenever you put you in the mix and your salvation is conditional on your performance, it’s no longer Christ alone, but you’re part of the equation that results in salvation, not Christ alone. Works are a result of God within, not a condition that helps to save you. That is sharing in the glory. You’re confusing maintaining a Godly relationship, and living in the Spirit rather than the flesh with salvation as if they are intertwined and they are not, other than a relationship with God as well as Godly works are an outward manifestation of God once you have been save through faith in Christ alone, and intended as a witness to those who do not believe.

The biggest problem with mankind is that man does not realize just how off the mark he actually is, nor how Righteous and Holy God is. God is perfect and His standards are absolute perfection, not your best effort. There is no sliding scale and so that is why Christ came into the world, to serve as a the substitute for our sinful condition and nature on the cross, and after resurrection He defeated it all because God knew we could not, and that was the only thing that could save us from paying the price and from restoration to Him. It’s a debt we cannot earn or repay, and it was done because He loves us, not condemns us. That’s not why Christ was sent into the world, but rather to save those who would accept the gift through faith, and a gift is not a gift if you have to work for it or participate in it.




This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 4:59 pm
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
239 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 6:15 pm to
Everything he just said...^^^^
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
239 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

The Scripture literally says they believed in Christ. Were they saved?


If you take scripture literally that everyone who believes will be saved, and it says that throughout scripture, then you have to come to the conclusion that they were in fact believers. My belief is that heaven will not be the same for everyone. Everyone that is there will be there because of their "belief" in Christ and they will be glad to be there, however, I think there is a greater reward for those that have lived faithful, obedient lives. Scripture speaks of ruling and reigning with Christ. It also speaks as our works being judged and being all burned up but that person being saved as one escaping from the flames.

So just as Jesus speaks of "greater punishment" in hell for some, I think that rewards in heaven will be greater for some and it will be based on the quality of our christian life and the "fruit" we produced. However, we will be saved simply because we believed in Christ.

14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
9470 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:07 am to
quote:

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:5


Paul is talking about the works of the Old Law. That's what Romans is all about.

Even the demons believe.

If you were drowning in the ocean and I threw you a life preserver, would just believing that the life preserver would save you if you grabbed it be enough? Would you're act of grabbing the life preserver be what saves you or the person who threw the life preserver?

The thief was still under the Old Law.

Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
9470 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:07 am to
quote:

It actually is found in scripture.


OK. Show me.
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
9470 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Following after Christ is discipleship, not salvation


Since this thread started with etymology. What is the meaning of the word "Christian"?
Posted by terd ferguson
Darren Wilson Fan Club President
Member since Aug 2007
111862 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:48 am to
It's almost like languages evolve over 2000+ years... crazy
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