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re: The most misunderstood, and misapplied word in the English language is “repent”

Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:10 pm to
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
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Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

Putting their faith in religion rather than Christ alone


The Scripture literally says they believed in Christ. Were they saved?

Everyone of those OT heroes acted on their faith, which is what actual faith is. It's an action verb.

quote:

It isn’t about our good deeds, or the law, as that is to show us our need for a redeemer. It’s about Jesus, and what He accomplished.

Correct, we can't do enough good to get ourselves to heaven, but God has always, always required obedience and fidelity.

quote:

and by Faith alone.


Not found in Scripture. The "all you have to do is believe" doctrine is just as detrimental as Calvinism as has condemned many to torment.

Paul even said he was called to be an Apostle to bring about the obedience of faith to the Gentiles. It's not just about believing Jesus was who he said he was, it's about believing in Him and about what he promises those that take up their cross and follow him. Many conflate meritorious works with an obedient faith.

eta: How do you feel about the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus could have just said "believe in me" and took a nap.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 1:13 pm
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
23476 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

Correct, we can't do enough good to get ourselves to heaven, but God has always, always required obedience and fidelity.

Therein lies the rub.

But perhaps we trust in Christ's perfect obedience since ours isn't good enough.

Or, every knee will bow anyway and all will be reconciled through Christ.
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

But perhaps we trust in Christ's perfect obedience since ours isn't good enough.


He's our only hope. If you get down to it, it's His perfect faith we are saved by, not ours.

ETA: The we're saved by faith and not works crowd don't understand that faith is a work.
This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 1:20 pm
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

Or, every knee will bow anyway and all will be reconciled through Christ.


Every knee will bow, but unfortunately Jesus will say to some "depart from me, I know thee not".
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
15518 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 1:23 pm to
The most misunderstood, and misapplied word in the English language is “hero”

/thread
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61325 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 4:33 pm to
quote:

Not found in Scripture. The "all you have to do is believe" doctrine is just as detrimental as Calvinism as has condemned many to torment.

Paul even said he was called to be an Apostle to bring about the obedience of faith to the Gentiles. It's not just about believing Jesus was who he said he was, it's about believing in Him and about what he promises those that take up their cross and follow him. Many conflate meritorious works with an obedient faith.

eta: How do you feel about the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus could have just said "believe in me" and took a nap.



It actually is found in scripture. When you put your full faith in Christ as conditional for your salvation He saves you because He is the way, the truth and the life, not you. You desperately do not earn it or deserve it. It is a gift from God to mankind. The thief understood this and put his faith in Christ and was saved because of it. He saw himself and knew his righteousness was hot garbage and deserved the cross, then saw Christ and knew He was who He said He is and absolutely did not deserve it, and so put his faith in Him by asking Him to remember him, to which Christ told him He would. That’s putting your faith in Christ alone and not your righteousness. Following after Christ is discipleship, not salvation, and it takes on many forms, all resulting in people rejecting you for standing for Christ, going against the grain and people hating you for Christ’s sake, not your own, ridiculing your for your witness, etc, and if believing was easy, everyone would do it, but instead insert the law into the mix, as well as self, and yet neither have the ability to save you, Jesus does, but pride and religiosity have been plaguing mankind for all of his existence because we want our righteousness to play a part. God says otherwise, and is the very reason He sent His son into the world.

quote:

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:5



Whenever you put you in the mix and your salvation is conditional on your performance, it’s no longer Christ alone, but you’re part of the equation that results in salvation, not Christ alone. Works are a result of God within, not a condition that helps to save you. That is sharing in the glory. You’re confusing maintaining a Godly relationship, and living in the Spirit rather than the flesh with salvation as if they are intertwined and they are not, other than a relationship with God as well as Godly works are an outward manifestation of God once you have been save through faith in Christ alone, and intended as a witness to those who do not believe.

The biggest problem with mankind is that man does not realize just how off the mark he actually is, nor how Righteous and Holy God is. God is perfect and His standards are absolute perfection, not your best effort. There is no sliding scale and so that is why Christ came into the world, to serve as a the substitute for our sinful condition and nature on the cross, and after resurrection He defeated it all because God knew we could not, and that was the only thing that could save us from paying the price and from restoration to Him. It’s a debt we cannot earn or repay, and it was done because He loves us, not condemns us. That’s not why Christ was sent into the world, but rather to save those who would accept the gift through faith, and a gift is not a gift if you have to work for it or participate in it.




This post was edited on 5/13/25 at 4:59 pm
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
380 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 6:15 pm to
Everything he just said...^^^^
Posted by Canon951
Member since May 2020
380 posts
Posted on 5/13/25 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

The Scripture literally says they believed in Christ. Were they saved?


If you take scripture literally that everyone who believes will be saved, and it says that throughout scripture, then you have to come to the conclusion that they were in fact believers. My belief is that heaven will not be the same for everyone. Everyone that is there will be there because of their "belief" in Christ and they will be glad to be there, however, I think there is a greater reward for those that have lived faithful, obedient lives. Scripture speaks of ruling and reigning with Christ. It also speaks as our works being judged and being all burned up but that person being saved as one escaping from the flames.

So just as Jesus speaks of "greater punishment" in hell for some, I think that rewards in heaven will be greater for some and it will be based on the quality of our christian life and the "fruit" we produced. However, we will be saved simply because we believed in Christ.

14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:07 am to
quote:

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:5


Paul is talking about the works of the Old Law. That's what Romans is all about.

Even the demons believe.

If you were drowning in the ocean and I threw you a life preserver, would just believing that the life preserver would save you if you grabbed it be enough? Would you're act of grabbing the life preserver be what saves you or the person who threw the life preserver?

The thief was still under the Old Law.

Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:07 am to
quote:

It actually is found in scripture.


OK. Show me.
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Following after Christ is discipleship, not salvation


Since this thread started with etymology. What is the meaning of the word "Christian"?
Posted by terd ferguson
Darren Wilson Fan Club President
Member since Aug 2007
113763 posts
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:48 am to
It's almost like languages evolve over 2000+ years... crazy
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61325 posts
Posted on 5/15/25 at 8:04 am to
quote:

OK. Show me.


John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 3:36

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

John 5:24

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 6:47

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

Acts 16:30–31

“And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

Romans 10:9–10

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

Ephesians 2:8–9

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Example in real time as Jesus hung on the cross.

Luke 23:39-43

quote:

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”


The criminal saw who he was and knew that he was deserving of the cross, recognized Jesus for who He is and knew He did not deserve it, believed on Jesus to save him, to which Jesus did.

That is what salvation looks like. If any works were required rather than believing upon Jesus, as is the Father’s will for mankind stated clearly in scriptures…Jesus would have required that of him, but it is consistent with what He says all along.

quote:

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40



It’s not about you. It’s about Jesus. Your righteousness is like filthy rags before God. You cannot earn this. It was done for the world, and is a gift of salvation, nothing you work for. We only receive the gift when we accept it as sufficient for our salvation. That is why it is called the good news. Otherwise, if I participate in my salvation, then we’re back to me and my performance in doing good works and righteousness, and that not just isn’t a gift any longer, but it is indeed very bad news for all of us, except for the self deluded of us who clothe themselves in their own self righteousness rather than Christ’s alone. Everyone of us have to first recognize who we are, and who Jesus is in order to realize how fruitless our attempts are to meet God in anything other than belief and reliance upon what Christ did and not what we do.



This post was edited on 5/15/25 at 8:46 am
Posted by LittleJerrySeinfield
350,000 Post Karma
Member since Aug 2013
10064 posts
Posted on 5/15/25 at 9:08 am to
You're basing your salvation on your fallible human belief, not Jesus.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
61325 posts
Posted on 5/15/25 at 9:53 am to
quote:

You're basing your salvation on your fallible human belief, not Jesus.



I’m basing my salvation upon what Jesus said, and the entirety of what scripture says, that’s it, not on feelings, or experiences, or fruit inspections, or man’s teachings outside the scriptures, but solely upon Jesus.

You’re trying to complicate the simplicity of the Gospel, and yet Christ Himself told us that if we are to come to Him we must be like little children. Little children are trusting and believing. They aren’t the most learned amongst us. They believe, even in spite of what they see around them, because God Said, that’s why.

The very same can be said for Abraham who believed God, and scripture tells us that it was counted unto him for righteousness. We also believe God through doing His will to believe upon His son Jesus, and that is what Paul references in Romans

quote:

For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”. Romans 4:3


quote:

Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are they whose lawless acts are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.” Romans 4:4-8


quote:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17


This is the verse immediately following the renowned John 3:16

He is not condemning the world but rather saving those who put their complete faith in Him that He both has, and will save us based on what Christ has done and who Jesus IS, not in our own merit. You clearly have to know who you are and who Jesus is first and foremost, and recognizing you cannot save yourself or participate in your salvation is critical to understanding your desperate need for Christ, then reaching out in faith to believe upon Him, that He is who He said He is, and He is the savior, not you.


quote:

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3



Jesus IS THE Lord. He is Lord of all. I am not. I am God’s child, purchased at the cross through the blood of Jesus who paid for me. I am not my own.

This post was edited on 5/15/25 at 10:03 am
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