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re: tGOAT American General U.S. Grant's memorial officially restored on the National Mall
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:03 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:03 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
My god, you are obtuse. It's like you don't care what your own words mean.
You’re taking a conversation about a battle a long time ago a little too personal. We aren’t even disagreeing on facts. We are disagreeing on how “big of.a deal” something was.
Beleaguered City was the last one I read that I can recall the name. I’ve got 3-4 about Vicksburg but I wouldn’t be able to remember the names, some I haven’t read in 20 years. I read BC maybe 6-8 months ago. I may have 15-20 about the Civil War, maybe more. I’ve lost many over the years unfortunately. Nowadays many times I just check them out at the library and return them. BC I bought used for $4 at a book store though and loved it.
2
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:07 am to windshieldman
quote:
You’re taking a conversation about a battle a long time ago a little too personal.
Not at all. We're disagreeing on the expectations. We agree that once Grant flanked the city, the siege and the surrender was a matter of time. I think you're underrating the degree of difficulty in siege a city as Grant did in the amount of time that he did it in. It was a Herculean task. Not only that, who had these expectations? From the documentation, I don't get the impression anyone thought Grant would actually be able to do it.
Thanks for the book recs. I have around 2000 myself. One day I'll build my own library.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:09 am to windshieldman
Alright I stayed longer than intended. We get the thread about Grant every month or 2 and I always throw in my obligatory Grant asking for many more troops than needed just to joke around. That was all my intent was today.
As far as the other post about Johnston neglecting Vicksburg due to it being too late. According to him it was b/c he didn’t have enough troops. IIRC Davis was pissed at Johnston, but Johnston felt he didn’t have enough to begin with and it was a lost cause. Union had a massive amount of troops and resources. South needed more than just Johnston to help.
As far as the other post about Johnston neglecting Vicksburg due to it being too late. According to him it was b/c he didn’t have enough troops. IIRC Davis was pissed at Johnston, but Johnston felt he didn’t have enough to begin with and it was a lost cause. Union had a massive amount of troops and resources. South needed more than just Johnston to help.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:10 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Thanks for the book recs. I have around 2000 myself. One day I'll build my own library.
I’d say you’ve already got a library. Are you my Uncle George? That’s incrediblePosted on 10/13/19 at 10:12 am to windshieldman
It's split between my parents house and my house, but it's around that many.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:14 am to windshieldman
quote:
IIRC Davis was pissed at Johnston, but Johnston felt he didn’t have enough to begin with and it was a lost cause.
You recall correctly. Though Johnston didn't think it a lost cause until Grant successfully got across the river and began speeding into the interior of Mississippi. Once Grant took Jackson he knew the gig was up and was trying to prevent an even bigger disaster than had already transpired. His orders to Pemberton to evacuate the city were correct and should have been carried out. Vicksburg was all but finished by that point and in choosing to hold out to the bitter end, Pemberton ensured that an entire Confederate army would be wiped off the CSA's order of battle.
This post was edited on 10/13/19 at 10:15 am
Posted on 10/13/19 at 10:16 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Pemberton ensured that an entire Confederate army would be wiped off the CSA's order of battle.
Yeah the south losing 30,000 troops to capture was the last thing they needed.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 11:11 am to RollTide1987
"Hulk Smash" does not make one a GOAT general.
Posted on 10/13/19 at 11:42 am to LoneStarRanger
quote:
"Hulk Smash" does not make one a GOAT general.
If you think that's what he did then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted on 10/14/19 at 12:47 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
His enhanced reputation can be traced to the 1890s when confederate statues starting going up all over the South after the Redeemers got to power and white Southerners crushed the populist movements of the 1890s and the Spanish-American War made patriotism popular in the South again.
Simply not true. A product of actual revisionism. For example, those behind the Lee statue in New Orleans began planning it in the mid 1870s, when a Reconstruction government was still in place in Louisiana- during the Grant presidency. It was completed in 1883 or 84.
Confederate generals were treated as rockstars when they went up North after the war. Along with Grant and Sherman, many were also treated as rockstars in foreign nations.
It is contemporaneously documented almost universally that Robert E Lee was well thought of and respected by Northerners as well as Southerners.
The myth (that started a couple of decades ago) is that the above is not true.
Easy myth to blow up with a modicum of decent research into primary and contemporary sources.
This post was edited on 10/14/19 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 10/14/19 at 12:49 pm to windshieldman
quote:
Yeah the south losing 30,000 troops to capture was the last thing they needed.
Yeah but a lot of us wouldn't be here if our great-great-grandfathers hadn't been captured and paroled at Vicksburg.
Posted on 10/14/19 at 1:00 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
He was the man who made them run out of steam.
This made them run out of steam before it even really got started.
The anaconda plan all but sealed the CSA’s fate at the outset of the war.
This post was edited on 10/14/19 at 1:02 pm
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