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re: Someone today told me that the US had the best healthcare system in the world
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:20 pm to Bronc
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:20 pm to Bronc
quote:
I’m aware of this, there are no free lunches, but you should also look up global public + private per capita health expenditures by country.
Can you link the data? Not trying to be a dick but I want to know exactly what you are talking about and see what it includes.
This post was edited on 9/15/22 at 9:23 pm
1
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:30 pm to WaWaWeeWa
I’m on my phone so it’s a bit more difficult to pull stuff up and post on this site
Source: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (2010), “OECD Health Data”, OECD Health Statistics (database). doi: 10.1787/data-00350-en (Accessed on 14 February 2011).
A bit older there, but also this to your point
Source: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (2010), “OECD Health Data”, OECD Health Statistics (database). doi: 10.1787/data-00350-en (Accessed on 14 February 2011).
A bit older there, but also this to your point
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:32 pm to Bronc
quote:
He couldn’t stop, Google, diagnose, and then make a rational market decision weighing price and quality amongst a bunch of hospitals and doctors.
That’s a pretty extreme example, in most cases we can choose. Whenever I had gotten in a burn accident in high school, with 3 hospitals to choose from, my parents told ambulance to drive to a further hospital because of bad experiences with the closer one. This even in an emergency situation. In most cases it isn’t.
I don’t think anyone wants healthcare to be a pure free trade market, I think the reasons for that are pretty obvious. Calling for less regulation towards free trade isn’t calling for good regulations to be removed.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:34 pm to Bronc
Uhh…
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:36 pm to jyoung1
But even in your example you are talking about a limited decision-making process, and you needed outside help to make those decisions.
So in your less extreme example you’re still helping illustrate the point that this is not a normal market like you walking in and shopping for shoes or deciding on a burger place.
I’m also not more or less anything, I think in some cases we need a lot stricter regulation and interventions, in other cases less. Though IMO everything just needs to be rethought altogether.
So in your less extreme example you’re still helping illustrate the point that this is not a normal market like you walking in and shopping for shoes or deciding on a burger place.
I’m also not more or less anything, I think in some cases we need a lot stricter regulation and interventions, in other cases less. Though IMO everything just needs to be rethought altogether.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:38 pm to jyoung1
So there you go, even more recent data.
America is simply a mess.
We pay more in taxes, we pay a ton out of pocket, and yet our health outcomes are a mixed bag and we leave a ton of coverage gaps and vulnerabilities.
America is simply a mess.
We pay more in taxes, we pay a ton out of pocket, and yet our health outcomes are a mixed bag and we leave a ton of coverage gaps and vulnerabilities.
This post was edited on 9/15/22 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:39 pm to GeauxOCDP
quote:
The care is the best, sure. Too bad that major surgery you needed will cost so much you have to file bankruptcy. It's both true and false. Pricing in Healthcare in this country is a joke.
Here’s a basic fact of life, the main facets of any product are: quality, accessibility and affordability. Unfortunately It’s only possible to get two of them at the same time.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:43 pm to Robin Masters
That’s not true.
Plenty of countries have very good health outcomes, aren’t going bankrupt, don’t require long waits, and everyone has some base level of comprehensive care.
And the ways in which they achieve it are incredibly varied. America has just not been one of them.
Plenty of countries have very good health outcomes, aren’t going bankrupt, don’t require long waits, and everyone has some base level of comprehensive care.
And the ways in which they achieve it are incredibly varied. America has just not been one of them.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:46 pm to Bronc
quote:
America is simply a mess.
I’m not really understanding your point.
I believe that chart pretty plainly shows that the government is the problem, and you seem to agree, but then you seem to argue against removing regulations and moving towards more free trade system.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:57 pm to jyoung1
quote:
I’m not really understanding your point. I believe that chart pretty plainly shows that the government is the problem, and you seem to agree, but then you seem to argue against removing regulations and moving towards more free trade system.
Because this isn’t a binary either or problem.
Also note on your chart that the UK, Australia, and Japan all have about half the government expenditures and overall per capita costs as the US.
Are you also aware they are three of the most regulated and socialized systems on the planet? Japan literally has countrywide price controls. A little annual book that specifies the top rate a provider can charge for every healthcare service in the country. Australia and the UK essentially have the government run everything from hospitals to insurance.
But I guess more specifically, what regulations are you seeking to remove? Cause like I said, there are in my mind a multitude of ways to skin this cat and in some places over regulation probably is true and deregulating needed. In other ways, like the other poster suggested, creating a standardized system governing all processes to reduce administrative bloat may be helpful
This post was edited on 9/15/22 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 9/15/22 at 9:59 pm to athenslife101
quote:
Someone today told me that the US had the best healthcare system in the world
This person was correct.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 10:08 pm to Bronc
I don’t know enough to have a solution but I certainly know it’s not something the government is capable of solving, as seen by the chart, they seem to be the cause.
This post was edited on 9/15/22 at 10:10 pm
Posted on 9/15/22 at 10:12 pm to Bronc
Here’s the problem I have
It’s the same way they massage the data with COVID. It’s not apples to apples.
Look at the category called “collective services”. Notice how it’s 10% more than every country? Collective services includes bullshite government programs that have to do with housing and daycare and nonsense that isn’t healthcare.
When you back out that 10% of spending we are all of a sudden much closer to the other countries in percent of GDP.
The second issue is that most of the increase costs are self inflicted.
The Lancet
Almost all of the difference in healthcare spending is because we are fat.
It’s the same way they massage the data with COVID. It’s not apples to apples.
Look at the category called “collective services”. Notice how it’s 10% more than every country? Collective services includes bullshite government programs that have to do with housing and daycare and nonsense that isn’t healthcare.
When you back out that 10% of spending we are all of a sudden much closer to the other countries in percent of GDP.
The second issue is that most of the increase costs are self inflicted.
The Lancet
quote:
In 2016, US health-care spending attributable to modifiable risk factors was US$730·4 billion (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 694·6–768·5), corresponding to 27·0% (95% UI 25·7–28·4) of total health-care spending. Attributable spending was largely due to five risk factors: high body-mass index ($238·5 billion, 178·2–291·6), high systolic blood pressure ($179·9 billion, 164·5–196·0), high fasting plasma glucose ($171·9 billion, 154·8–191·9), dietary risks ($143·6 billion, 130·3–156·1), and tobacco smoke ($130·0 billion, 116·8–143·5). Spending attributable to risk factor varied by age and sex, with the fraction of attributable spending largest for those aged 65 years and older (45·5%, 44·2–46·8)
Almost all of the difference in healthcare spending is because we are fat.
This post was edited on 9/15/22 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 9/15/22 at 10:14 pm to Bronc
quote:
America is simply a mess. We pay more in taxes, we pay a ton out of pocket, and yet our health outcomes are a mixed bag and we leave a ton of coverage gaps and vulnerabilities.
What?
We just proved this wrong.
We pay way less in taxes. And the poor pay way more in taxes in Europe.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 10:21 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Now that seems to explain everything for me.
Some of problem is Government paying for things that aren’t healthcare and calling it healthcare.
Rest of the problem is we fat.
Some of problem is Government paying for things that aren’t healthcare and calling it healthcare.
Rest of the problem is we fat.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 10:29 pm to WaWaWeeWa
I feel like some of the problem may also have something to do with how little input most people have on the market. Our large company’s decide which insurance provider to go with, and the insurance providers probably have too much input and/or vested interest in the medical providers, in order to maximize profits across the board. Sort of like how a monopoly would.
Posted on 9/15/22 at 10:41 pm to jyoung1
quote:
Now that seems to explain everything for me
These are the same type of people that presented the COVID facts to you.
They said “we have 300,000 COVID hospitalizations” but didn’t tell us 50% we asymptomatic positives not in the hospital for COVID.
They know how to distort the facts. You have to look at the data in detail to find the trickery.
quote:
I feel like some of the problem may also have something to do with how little input most people have on the market
Agreed
This post was edited on 9/15/22 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 9/15/22 at 11:23 pm to WaWaWeeWa
No take that little chart and add cost of health care for USA and add it to tax. Seriously doubt it far off for those +40 and middle class.
Posted on 9/16/22 at 1:02 am to Bronc
quote:
Here’s someone that went from England(UHC) to Japan(UHC)
This corroborates my point. There is a reason these people are leaving their free healthcare to get healthcare elsewhere.
quote:
Kobe, Peyton Manning, and ARod all sought cutting edge treatments in Europe over just staying in the US.
They were getting life saving treatment in Europe?
Posted on 9/16/22 at 6:01 am to Rebel
My SIL who was living In Brussels, Belgium used to brag on the European system and poo-poo the US all over Facebook.
As soon as her toddler was diagnosed with a serious eye deformity, they jumped on a flight to the US to see a specialist with the quickness, and continue to access the US health care system for treatment.
I called her out on the hypocrisy, and yeah, she unfriended me.
As soon as her toddler was diagnosed with a serious eye deformity, they jumped on a flight to the US to see a specialist with the quickness, and continue to access the US health care system for treatment.
I called her out on the hypocrisy, and yeah, she unfriended me.
This post was edited on 9/16/22 at 6:02 am
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