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Started By
Message
re: Social Security's insolvency date is now a year earlier
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:03 pm to FLObserver
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:03 pm to FLObserver
quote:
FICA taxes i believe pay for alot of the social security and medicare. My only issue is why do Pensions not have to pay fica taxes to helped with disabled etc..? So people on the railroad for example will get their full retirement while people getting FICA taken out for SS will not get their full retirement when its time to retire.
FICA taxes are social security and Medicare. Many people with pensions also pay fica taxes and are also entitled to social security. Are you suggesting some sortof “money grab” of pension funds to shore up social security? Many pension funds already fund lots of govt thru the purchase of US treasuries, just like the SSA.
1
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:11 pm to Dawgfanman
Simple google search answer:
Railroad employees do not pay FICA taxes because they are covered under a separate retirement system, the Railroad Retirement system, which predates the Social Security system. Instead of Social Security and Medicare taxes (FICA), they pay into the Railroad Retirement system, which provides both retirement and survivor benefits.
I'm guessing these folks arent worried about this system going bust in the next 15 years.
You state many people pay fica etc... But that isnt all people as my example above shows and government pensions as well. Are these people worried about losing half of what they paid into most of their lives when they are close to retiring? You know the answer to that.
Railroad employees do not pay FICA taxes because they are covered under a separate retirement system, the Railroad Retirement system, which predates the Social Security system. Instead of Social Security and Medicare taxes (FICA), they pay into the Railroad Retirement system, which provides both retirement and survivor benefits.
I'm guessing these folks arent worried about this system going bust in the next 15 years.
You state many people pay fica etc... But that isnt all people as my example above shows and government pensions as well. Are these people worried about losing half of what they paid into most of their lives when they are close to retiring? You know the answer to that.
This post was edited on 6/18/25 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:12 pm to OlGrandad
quote:
Social Security was initially meant as income for retirement. Now, it includes crazy checks. survivors and disabled.
You'd vomit and then want to murder someone if you had any idea just how many of the kids I teach/coach and their "families" receive funds for fraudulent and nonsensical bs.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:14 pm to Revelator
quote:
100% would imply we didn’t pay a dime into the system. This is false
No, it implies that unless you die early, you get way more money from Social Security than you put. The average SS recipient gets 2- 3 times more money from SS than was put in.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:15 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
There's not enough fraud and waste to save Social Security. It's a ponzi scheme. It was never intended to be a retirement fund.
Again, not a Ponzi scheme by definition because by definition requires fraud, exagerrated rates of return, no intention of EVER paying anyone any money at all except for a small amount taken from the next investor and not disclosing that fact. Social security is on record as to where the money that goes to benefits goes....from one pocket to an account and from that account directly to benefit recipients AND federal agencies who pay it back with modest interest. Social security is also on record as to how long it will take to recoup every penny paid in...currently 11-12 years on average, about the same as the average life expectancy. This is not the case in a Ponzi scheme where investors are told they will make wild returns over short periods of time when the intent is to only pay some a small amount over a short period of time which is taken from the next investor and does not fund any government agency.
Social Security is villified by the wealthy because it initially meant fewer employees living below the poverty line who had to continue to work. It is now villified because thus far we have kept their greedy paws off OUR money and they would like nothing better than for us to turn it over to them and let them steal every penny without any intention of ever giving any of it back. Meanwhile almost every single person in the country lucky enough to have family members who lived past retirement age has had less financial burden, their family member had some income in retirement and thus some dignity and for those who have had family members widowed, disabled or orphaned they too have had less financial burden.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:15 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
Trump is trying, but "conservatives" are opposed to the bill that cuts entitlements.
No party is going to touch it. We will eventually print money to cover the difference until we default on our debt.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:16 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
No, it implies that unless you die early, you get way more money from Social Security than you put.
Isn’t that how all investments work? Is it my fault the government squandered instead of growing it?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:16 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
The only element missing for it to be a ponzi scheme is the fraud which must be present to make a ponzi scheme a ponzi scheme. That fraud is generally two fold.,,,,first is to NEVER return any of the investors money but to simply find more investors and pay them, the second is over exaggerating expected returns. One knows fully well where the money the receive is coming from....no one misleads us on that point. We also know full well what the expected return is....its a matter of public record and is not exaggerated in the least. I understand it sounds cutting edge to say Ponzi Scheme but the simple fact is Social Security does not fit the bill in any fashion.
You clearly don't don't know what a Ponzi Scheme is
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:16 pm to rob0710
Did congress ever pay back the money they stole from SS?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:17 pm to Coach72
quote:
You'd vomit and then want to murder someone if you had any idea just how many of the kids I teach/coach and their "families" receive funds for fraudulent and nonsensical bs.
This is a MAJOR problem that would not exist with an entire industry of well heeled doctors and lawyers who convince these people they are disabled and by doing so make a helluva living at it. While the recipient is certainly shameful the bastard with 3 lake houses and a fleet of Mercede automobiles convincing them they are disabled are the problem.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:20 pm to Revelator
quote:
Isn’t that how all investments work?
There is no investment in Social Security. It is an in-and-out scheme. The money you pay in is directly paid out to recipients.
quote:
Is it my fault the government squandered instead of growing it?
When has the government ever grown anything other than the deficit?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:21 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I keep hearing everyone who's old enough saying they weren't counting on it, didn't think it'd still be there, didn't think theyd get anything out of it, etc etc. So why are they so pissed off that we want it gone? Their property value inflation in the last 6 years alone should be enough to die on.
Seriously you can't fathom why a group of people who put $5000 to $10,000 a year of their hard earned money into a government forced ponzi scheme over a 40 year career wants their money? At $5,000 a year over 40 years and 8% ROI thats almost $1.3 MM in retirement savings that in your opinion we should let go because we weren't counting on it.
Why don't you lead by example and tell Uncle Sam he can keep your tax deductions, child tax credits, and tax refunds every year for the next 40 years because you know you weren't counting on getting that money back!
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:22 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Social Security is on track to deplete its trust fund by 2034,
Real question...
I keep hearing this. What funds is it "depleting" ? Isn't the SS trust fund all government bonds and the collected money already spent ?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:26 pm to armytiger96
quote:
Seriously you can't fathom why a group of people who put $5000 to $10,000 a year of their hard earned money into a government forced ponzi scheme over a 40 year career wants their money? At $5,000 a year over 40 years and 8% ROI thats almost $1.3 MM in retirement savings that in your opinion we should let go because we weren't counting on it.
Nailed it! Yeah i have 401k/roth etc.. but still pissed this seems to be my fate while other segments as i mentioned : teaches,railroads folks have no worries about their retirement but i'm supposed to be like oh well.
This post was edited on 6/18/25 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:27 pm to AwgustaDawg
Imagine a scenario where 100 of us get together and decide we are going to take a little of our money each year and put in a bank with the intent of helping one another our when one of us is too old to work, our kids are orphaned, we get disabled or one of our salaries is lost due to death. Our kids are also joined into this group.
Given that if ANY of these things happened to one of us the rest of us are either going to face some level of financial burden or the person it happened to is going to be left to their own devices. Most of us would agree its the humane thing to do to help them a little instead of watching them die in the street and its better to spread that burden across all of us than anyone of us facing it alone.
Very few people begrudge some modest income to the elderly, orphaned, disabled or widowed. Especially when our contributions do not take away much of our own income AND we are ENTITLED to the same consideration should any of these conditions befall us.
That is Social Security in a simple nutshell. Unfortunately for the few trogolodytes among us who sincerely do not care what happens to the elderly, orphaned, disabled or widowed the vast majority of us are saddled with a sense of right and wrong and with forethought and malice take a little of our income and provide to those groups. The few among us who hate the idea are welcome to live under a bridge and we will take care of them also because we are decent human beings. It is an agreement we made with one another and it is hugely popular. It has issues, far too many people willing to steal our money is the biggest, but the basic concept is about as humane as humanity gets.
Given that if ANY of these things happened to one of us the rest of us are either going to face some level of financial burden or the person it happened to is going to be left to their own devices. Most of us would agree its the humane thing to do to help them a little instead of watching them die in the street and its better to spread that burden across all of us than anyone of us facing it alone.
Very few people begrudge some modest income to the elderly, orphaned, disabled or widowed. Especially when our contributions do not take away much of our own income AND we are ENTITLED to the same consideration should any of these conditions befall us.
That is Social Security in a simple nutshell. Unfortunately for the few trogolodytes among us who sincerely do not care what happens to the elderly, orphaned, disabled or widowed the vast majority of us are saddled with a sense of right and wrong and with forethought and malice take a little of our income and provide to those groups. The few among us who hate the idea are welcome to live under a bridge and we will take care of them also because we are decent human beings. It is an agreement we made with one another and it is hugely popular. It has issues, far too many people willing to steal our money is the biggest, but the basic concept is about as humane as humanity gets.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:30 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Of course he did. The Jewish people wrote that book.
Again, how is it the boomers or anyone else for that matters fault that our government promised a return on money they forcefully removed from our checks for 40-50 years and then say, too bad?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:40 pm to armytiger96
I was being very facetious. I'm ~ 15 years into dumping money into that garbage arse program.
- Is there actually an 8% ROI on money paid into SS? I thought it was much lower than that?
- Are you going to get anwhere close to 1.3M back out of it?
It needs to completely go away. I'm offering to give up my ~ 15 years of paying in to make it happen. What will you give up to help make it happen?
quote:
At $5,000 a year over 40 years and 8% ROI thats almost $1.3 MM in retirement savings that in your opinion we should let go because we weren't counting on it.
- Is there actually an 8% ROI on money paid into SS? I thought it was much lower than that?
- Are you going to get anwhere close to 1.3M back out of it?
It needs to completely go away. I'm offering to give up my ~ 15 years of paying in to make it happen. What will you give up to help make it happen?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:43 pm to rob0710
How do you figure you can just switch?
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:43 pm to RLDSC FAN
Pretend it’s a slush fund for Ukraine. They will pull billions out of their asses.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 3:45 pm to FLObserver
quote:
Simple google search answer: Railroad employees do not pay FICA taxes because they are covered under a separate retirement system, the Railroad Retirement system, which predates the Social Security system. Instead of Social Security and Medicare taxes (FICA), they pay into the Railroad Retirement system, which provides both retirement and survivor benefits. I'm guessing these folks arent worried about this system going bust in the next 15 years. You state many people pay fica etc... But that isnt all people as my example above shows and government pensions as well. Are these people worried about losing half of what they paid into most of their lives when they are close to retiring? You know the answer to that
Railroad retirement represents a small number of pensioners approx 500k, where teachers retirement systems, state retirement systems, etc represent the majority of pensioners and many if not most of them pay into social security as well as their pensions.
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