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re: So the whole seal team 6 deal has always confused me
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:34 am to 13SaintTiger
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:34 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:Aside from what SF does, the majority of the kinetic missions conducted by SOF forces could be accomplished by conventional forces. Raiding a house in the middle of the night just isn't that hard. Guarding an oil field in some shitty Central African country isn't that hard. The list goes on.
It would be a total misallocation of resources to have conventional units conduct special operation missions just because you don’t deem them special. That isn’t what conventional units are for.
1
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:36 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
They're the operators of the operators.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:37 am to Old Money
The op needs to write a paper on it
Hopefully without copying someone else's work
Hopefully without copying someone else's work
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:41 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
the majority of the kinetic missions conducted by SOF forces could be accomplished by conventional forces. Raiding a house in the middle of the night just isn't that hard. Guarding an oil field in some shitty Central African country isn't that hard.
It’s not about what’s hard or not hard. It’s about the structure of the force and who our enemy is and will be. Once again, conventional is big picture, special operations deals with the nuances that can effect the big picture. It has always been that way and isn’t something new that just changed in the past few years. I’ll agree to disagree with you though.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:46 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:And I’m saying that the structure of the conventional forces could handle a large portion of what SOF forces are currently doing.
It’s about the structure of the force and who our enemy is and will be.
We could also look at the deeper issue and talk about the amount of missions that our military and by default SOCOM is being tasked with. But that’s a foreign policy discussion, not a military structure discussion.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:51 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
And I’m saying that the structure of the conventional forces could handle a large portion of what SOF forces are currently doing.
Maybe, maybe not. It isn’t there job, never has been. Conventional forces often uplift special operation units. It still doesn’t back your assertion that SOCOM has fallen off the wagon when they’ve been doing this since there inception. You come off as having a personal conflict because of the lack of missions you were given.
This post was edited on 11/13/17 at 11:53 am
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:55 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:The amount of missions or lack there of that I’ve been on is irrelevant to this discussion. Since we’re hurling personal insults for no reason you come off as a POG who got to tag along with some cool guys a few times and has their cock shoved down your throat so far you can’t see the forest for the trees.
You come off as having a personal conflict because of the lack of missions you were given.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 11:55 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
seal team 6
the worst kept secret in the military
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:00 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
The amount of missions or lack there of that I’ve been on is irrelevant to this discussion.
What? It’s the premise of your discussion.
quote:
Since we’re hurling personal insults for no reason you come off as a POG who got to tag along with some cool guys a few times and has their cock shoved down your throat so far you can’t see the forest for the trees.
If by POG you mean not a marine grunt than yea I was a POG. If you mean Army infantry, then nah I wasn’t a POG, far from it. Either way, grow up. I wasnt attacking you.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:02 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:No, it’s not.
What? It’s the premise of your discussion.
quote:Im just telling you what you sound like. I don’t really care what you did in the Army
If by POG you mean not a marine grunt than yea I was a POG. If you mean Army infantry, then nah I wasn’t a POG, far from it.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:09 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
No, it’s not.
Yes it is. You are upset because conventional forces aren’t being used to your liking, alas getting more(iyo better) missions that you think could be handled by conventional forces. This obviously stems from your personal experience, which now has you jaded.
quote:
Im just telling you what you sound like. I don’t really care what you did in the Army
I mean that’s fine but it points to you having limited experience. I mean you referenced the poliboard for having good discussion about this stuff for pete’s sake. First two things I’ve seen were shite (i.e. professional standards by delta force, and SFAB breaking up a special ops monopoly).
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:22 pm to lsucoonass
quote:you're really hung up on that aren't you
op needs to write a paper on it
Hopefully without copying someone else's work
This post was edited on 11/13/17 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:33 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:Im not upset. I just think it could be done better that way.
You are upset because conventional forces aren’t being used to your liking, alas getting more(iyo better) missions that you think could be handled by conventional forces.
quote:You can take it however you want, but you're wrong.
This obviously stems from your personal experience, which now has you jaded.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:41 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
You can take it however you want, but you're wrong.
I’m fine with being wrong, my apologies for coming off as insulting.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 12:54 pm to 13SaintTiger
Posted on 11/13/17 at 1:08 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
You guys are going at it in here, good grief.
I'll add... unless you've been on the inside in the past few years it's really hard to know what's real and what isn't. The truth is blurry in the here and now when it comes to this subject matter much less once you're removed. outside of organizational structure, the world of special ops is ever changing and very fluid.. and certainly far from secret these days given the handful of sellouts writing books and exposing their brothers all for a buck, shameful.
And folks wonder why we have to guard developmental aircraft facilities like a freaking basecamp on foreign soil. Honor to duty is a dying sentiment.
I'll add... unless you've been on the inside in the past few years it's really hard to know what's real and what isn't. The truth is blurry in the here and now when it comes to this subject matter much less once you're removed. outside of organizational structure, the world of special ops is ever changing and very fluid.. and certainly far from secret these days given the handful of sellouts writing books and exposing their brothers all for a buck, shameful.
And folks wonder why we have to guard developmental aircraft facilities like a freaking basecamp on foreign soil. Honor to duty is a dying sentiment.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 1:16 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
My problems with SOCOM have very little to do with how professional or not the operators are, except for the SEALs of course, and more to do with what it's done to the military as a whole. The existence of SOCOM and it's unchecked funding and constant lust to find more and more missions, the majority of which could be accomplished by conventional forces, is the problem. I'm not shitting on anybody....except the SEALs of course.
on behalf of all the SEALs that have died fighting for this country, frick off. You don't even know what they do, or how they do it.
Extortion 17 , you know how that happened? Seal Team 6 was returning from a mission they already had accomplished and when they heard that a unit of Rangers was being ambushed and attacked they volunteered to go help them out. They were told the situation was too risky for helicopters and insisted on going in anyway.
You just shite on a the memory of a lot of good SEALs.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 1:21 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
They're part of JSOC (along with Delta) and a tier above the other ground combat elements of SOCom (Green Berets, Rangers, Raiders, SeALs, etc).
Posted on 11/13/17 at 1:28 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
And I’m saying that the structure of the conventional forces could handle a large portion of what SOF forces are currently doing.
What? No. Imagine a bunch of crayon eating grunts doing FID.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 1:42 pm to Korin
quote:They've done it before but I was speaking more to the DA/kinetic missions that have become almost the sole purview of Rangers/SEALs. Most of the advisory roles should stay with Army SF/ MARSOC. Those missions are much more difficult and require a lot of maturity and experience.
Imagine a bunch of crayon eating grunts doing FID.
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