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re: So im more convinced than ever that the govt allowed 9/11 to happen
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:49 pm to GumboPot
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:49 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Explosive is an ambiguous term.
I'd rather use the word power because it has a clear definition of energy per unit of time.
Ok, so it's a quicker reaction that we would generally refer to as an explosion. So let's use that a general theory here.
The point of the thermite is to melt the steel beam (in the conspiracy theory). However, this nanothermite has a much faster and hotter reaction that is similar to what we would call an explosion - you also referred to witnesses hearing an explosion. So, rather than slowly melting the beams so it looks as if they melted due to fire from the plane, they essentially blew the beams like they would with a standard shaped copper charge. So that begs the question of - why wouldn't they just use a standard shaped charge? Also, why would they use such a unique material knowing full well that it would leave a fingerprint in what they knew would be a massive forensic investigation including chemical and metallurgical analysis?
These theories require the average person to suspend their ability to use common sense and rational processing and instead substitute it with science fiction. None of your theory makes sense from a common sense standpoint and the fact that you can't even find a full scale study (putting nanothermite on a replica steel beam) should be a huge red flag for you, but you somehow continue to completely ignore it. I have to believe that you're just trolling at this point.
1
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:50 pm to TigersHuskers
FYI I just watched a YouTube documentary about engineering disasters and they showed a 747 that crashed into an 11 story apt complex in Amsterdam and the building .... remained .... standing.
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:51 pm to upgrayedd
Linked from my phone: The Great Thermate Debate
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:51 pm to GumboPot
quote:
ETA: Everyone needs to watch that video.
Don't bother.
They say "this is thermite. we don't have any nanothermite, but it's just like this only better"
You're just being completely dishonest at this point. That seems to be the MO of truthers.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:56 pm to upgrayedd
quote:The problem is that the government and the fake news lied to us (like they always do) about 9/11. Because of that it leaves a lot to interpretation.
You're just being completely dishonest at this point. That seems to be the MO of truthers.
Like the JFK assassination, there isn't a lot of truth out there to be gathered. So if someone doesn't connect every single dot, it isn't proof that government and the fake news told us the truth.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:57 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Linked from my phone: The Great Thermate Debate
He says in the video "I can't get nanothermite, but I made my own thermate instead"
Once again, you can't give me one full scale test showing the effect of nanothermite on a replica steel beam. It's the crux of your argument yet you can't link one actual full scale experiment. Sad.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 1:58 pm to OweO
quote:This.
The one thing I learned from this thread is that... When someone really believes in something, they will find anything they can to try to justify what it is they believe.
I find it curious that so many people insist that government and fake news told them the truth about 9/11.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:00 pm to upgrayedd
quote:And just saying, "Nuh uh" seems to be sufficient to debunk anything that varies from the official government conspiracy theory. That seems to be the MO of sheople.
You're just being completely dishonest at this point. That seems to be the MO of truthers.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:02 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
The problem is that the government and the fake news lied to us (like they always do) about 9/11. Because of that it leaves a lot to interpretation
Strangely enough, when asked directly, John Kerry said we brought bldg 7 down in a controlled manner...
So, every now and then you can hear them vomit some truth
He's a lead in the 7th floor group
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:02 pm to TX Tiger
I'm asking for a link to a full scale nanothermite test on a replica WTC steel beam. Can you link one? I'm coming up snake eyes with gumbo.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:02 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
The US government did not orchestrate 9/11. Were there operatives within the realm of government with knowledge of it? There had to be.
It's not a secret that US agencies had an idea that something big was being planned. They just didn't know what. And since the agencies didn't like to share info because they competed for funding, they couldn't piece together intel to figure it out. Were there agents who specifically knew the plot of 9/11? I seriously doubt it. Why would an American agent who dedicated his life to thwarting terrorist plots not share that?
quote:
Money and power, the same reason all wars are waged. 9/11 was the trigger for decades long war and much needed regime change in the Middle East.
Didn't even need 9/11 to accomplish that. The middle-east was already doing a good job of showing that things needed to change there. Whether 9/11 happened or not, we were going to be operating there at some point in some capacity.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:04 pm to IceTiger
quote:"Pull it."
The problem is that the government and the fake news lied to us (like they always do) about 9/11. Because of that it leaves a lot to interpretation
Strangely enough, when asked directly, John Kerry said we brought bldg 7 down in a controlled manner...
So, every now and then you can hear them vomit some truth
He's a lead in the 7th floor group
-- Larry "Lucky" Silverstein
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:11 pm to upgrayedd
quote:It would take me hours to retrace my steps and remember what sites/links I researched on the subject years and years ago.
I'm asking for a link to a full scale nanothermite test on a replica WTC steel beam. Can you link one? I'm coming up snake eyes with gumbo.
To be honest, I didn't put a whole lot of stock in the whole nanothermite theory. Not saying it couldn't be true, and I do remember seeing/hearing some compelling information on the subject, but I don't spend too much time on the specifics of how the buildings were brought down because I'm not a physics major; so I'll leave that argument up to the experts.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:16 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
However, this nanothermite has a much faster
Yes.
quote:
and hotter reaction
No. FeO3 + Al emits 4.13 MJ/KG always. Heat emission from that reaction are always the same. How you harness that heat is key. That involves geometry...the way the compounds are set up.
quote:
similar to what we would call an explosion
You could call it that when speaking amongst friends but it doesn't do a good job of describing the energy per unit time.
quote:
ou also referred to witnesses hearing an explosion.
Yes. FeO3 and Al compounds (or elements in the case of Al) can burn fast enough to be described as an explosion. Watch the video.
quote:There was no evidenced of "shaped copper charges" or blasting caps found...to my knowledge.
So, rather than slowly melting the beams so it looks as if they melted due to fire from the plane, they essentially blew the beams like they would with a standard shaped copper charge.
quote:
Also, why would they use such a unique material knowing full well that it would leave a fingerprint in what they knew would be a massive forensic investigation including chemical and metallurgical analysis?
Thermite is not a unique material. It's currently used in a lot of welding processes. Just as example look up rail welding...it's how they weld the tracks of railroads end to end at periodic locations. Thermite was used in the military during WWII for lots of applications. It's also used in cathotic protection applications in the pipeline industry attaching cathotic protection leads to the steel pipeline. Thermite is not unique at all.
Thermite leaves a lot less of a fingerprint than traditional shape charges. What's left is an AlO3 aerosol and elemental Fe. The WTC dust is full of Fe microspheres.
quote:
None of your theory makes sense from a common sense standpoint and the fact that you can't even find a full scale study (putting nanothermite on a replica steel beam) should be a huge red flag for you, but you somehow continue to completely ignore it. I have to believe that you're just trolling at this point.
Watch the video. The engineer demonstrates how to cut A36 W and tubular beams used to build the WTC with homemade thermite. Miliarty grade composite nanothermite found un-ignited at the WTC site would be MUCH more effective than homemade thermite but this engineer still duplicated the beam failures with a inferior thermite.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:20 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
They say "this is thermite. we don't have any nanothermite, but it's just like this only better"
You think military grade nanothermite is available to the public?
The engineer duplicated the beam failures with an inferior thermite...a homemade thermite. If the beam failures can be duplicated with homemade thermite then certainly the military grade nanothermite can do the job.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:22 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
He says in the video "I can't get nanothermite, but I made my own thermate instead"
Exactly.
He carried out the experiments with success with an inferior thermite.
A military grade thermite would perform WAY better.
quote:
Once again, you can't give me one full scale test showing the effect of nanothermite
Call the defense department ask for 50 pounds of composite nanothermite and see if they send it right over.
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:23 pm to DeafJam73
quote:I highly doubt the planners of 9/11 approached an American agent, dedicated to thwarting plots, to be part of theirs. There are plenty of "dirty" ones to work with.
It's not a secret that US agencies had an idea that something big was being planned. They just didn't know what. And since the agencies didn't like to share info because they competed for funding, they couldn't piece together intel to figure it out. Were there agents who specifically knew the plot of 9/11? I seriously doubt it. Why would an American agent who dedicated his life to thwarting terrorist plots not share that?
quote:When and how? How was the establishment going to get the American people behind a decades-long war in the Middle East?
Money and power, the same reason all wars are waged. 9/11 was the trigger for decades long war and much needed regime change in the Middle East.
Didn't even need 9/11 to accomplish that. The middle-east was already doing a good job of showing that things needed to change there. Whether 9/11 happened or not, we were going to be operating there at some point in some capacity.
Aside from that, time was running out, the problem in the Middle East festered for decades, the Oil Bourse was gaining strength, threatening our very monetary system, and the international banking cabal wanted the last remaining Central Banks that still hadn't fallen in line.
Many powerful forces with like interests came together to make this happen, much like the JFK assassination (Fed, MIC, corporate cronies, etc.).
Bottom line, it's about money(/power). It's ALWAYS about money(/power)
This post was edited on 8/9/17 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:28 pm to GumboPot
quote:This is why I don't spend a lot of time with the specifics of how the buildings were brought down. We have no idea what materials the establishment had/has at its disposal.
They say "this is thermite. we don't have any nanothermite, but it's just like this only better"
You think military grade nanothermite is available to the public?
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:28 pm to GumboPot
quote:
There was no evidenced of "shaped copper charges" or blasting caps found...to my knowledge.
I know. That's not what I said. I said " they essentially blew the beams like they would with a standard shaped copper charge"
quote:
Thermite is not a unique material. It's currently used in a lot of welding processes. Just as example look up rail welding...it's how they weld the tracks of railroads end to end at periodic locations. Thermite was used in the military during WWII for lots of applications. It's also used in cathotic protection applications in the pipeline industry attaching cathotic protection leads to the steel pipeline. Thermite is not unique at all.
Ok, so your theory that the evidence samples are some absolute indicator that there was some sort of special material used to take down the towers is completely bogus because you just said that it's a common material that could've come from anywhere. Thanks for admitting that.
quote:
Watch the video. The engineer demonstrates how to cut A36 W and tubular beams used to build the WTC with homemade thermite. Miliarty grade composite nanothermite found un-ignited at the WTC site would be MUCH more effective than homemade thermite but this engineer still duplicated the beam failures with a inferior thermite.
I did watch the video. It contained no nanothermite experiments. That's not how science works. You said yourself that they have different properties so why would you substitute one for the other then claim it proves your point? You can't substitute homemade thermite for nanothermite and say it's similar but better. You claim that your interest is in the forensic aspects of the theory but you're completely ignoring that no nathermite testing has been done because it doesn't adhere to your faux-scientific wild goose chase. Show me a full scale nanothermite test. I really want to see it.
Posted on 8/9/17 at 2:37 pm to GumboPot
quote:
You think military grade nanothermite is available to the public?
That's about as stereotypical a truther response as it gets.
You don't have the answer to my question so you just simply deflect. You're telling me that all those 9/11 truther engineers and experts you trust in so much can't make nanothermite? I find that extremely hard to believe. They're obviously smart enough to analyze it, surely they're smart enough to produce it, right?
You also just admitted that you or anyone else has no clue what the properties of nanothermite are since apparently no truthers have ever had access to it yet you all seem to claim to know it's capabilities.
quote:
The engineer duplicated the beam failures with an inferior thermite...a homemade thermite. If the beam failures can be duplicated with homemade thermite then certainly the military grade nanothermite can do the job.
That's not how scientific or forensic testing works. Once again, I really hope you're not an engineer because your lack of comprehension in scientific analysis, testing, and data interpretation is really bad.
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