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re: Scientist says he found definitive proof that God exists
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:18 am to Tiger inTampa
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:18 am to Tiger inTampa
quote:
So basically Mengele with omnipotence and a large subject pool?
Whomever is running the simulation really has a sick sense of humor.
0
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:24 am to Rickety Cricket
quote:
War, famine, disease, genocide, mass rape, torture, maiming.
Aren't those just examples of mankind exercising the freewill He was so generous to give us? He certainly wouldn't tell us to do any of it or command a few primitives to write it down so we don't forget.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:28 am to Rickety Cricket
quote:
War, famine, disease, genocide, mass rape, torture, maiming. You know, standard stuff that a benevolent and loving creator would bestow upon his beloved creations.
Are you arguing that these things are objectively bad? If so, please tell me why without resorting to your personal opinions.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:32 am to tom
quote:Very much like how the Indians (feather) had gods. Don't understand thunder? God of Thunder Don't understand how rain happens? Rain Gods Don't understand X? Well, just say it was the X God's will and call it a day. Easy peasy!
"I don't understand why so it must be god".
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:32 am to Argonaut
quote:
We aren't meant to understand with our primitive intellect
couple interesting experiments involving primordial soup and magnets
quote:
One of the most important pieces of experimental support for the "soup" theory came in 1953. A graduate student, Stanley Miller, and his professor, Harold Urey, performed an experiment that demonstrated how organic molecules could have spontaneously formed from inorganic precursors, under conditions like those posited by the Oparin-Haldane Hypothesis. The now-famous "Miller–Urey experiment" used a highly reduced mixture of gases—methane, ammonia and hydrogen—to form basic organic monomers, such as amino acids
another was showing the concept of predetermination through magnetic bonds
basically magnets were scattered about individually in a large box, and then the box is shaken, when the magnets come together they followed their inherent bonds and attached to form a shape , which was predetermined. The observer only sees small unrelated pieces, the bonds show themselves when energy is applied.
Like a puzzle coming together, if the pieces have unique bonds, the attractiveness of that bond and the energy to allow it to come together, the puzzle can form itself...without the individual pieces having input in where they want to go.
Words don't really do the visual justice, and the idea was that if at this primordial level Soup + Energy, caused a predetermined bond to show, how far does that predetermination go, and how far can we see it forming?
All of our cells and atoms working in some harmony to hold together and allowing me the ability to type this post, is all just how they "decided" to bond, or were they predetermined to bond? At what point does this process have "choice"?
This post was edited on 6/9/16 at 7:34 am
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:42 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:42 am to AUveritas
quote:
Are you arguing that these things are objectively bad?
"Good" and "bad" are not based on objectivity. Any discussion of the good or bad from these things would be subjective.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:50 am to Argonaut
quote:
"Good" and "bad" are not based on objectivity. Any discussion of the good or bad from these things would be subjective.
So, to say wars, famine, etc. are bad and that no good God would allow them is, in reality, just nonsensical? Or, at the very least, it's an argument that has no basis on objectivity.
This post was edited on 6/9/16 at 7:51 am
Posted on 6/9/16 at 7:55 am to AUveritas
quote:
So to say wars, famine, etc. are bad and that no good God would allow them is, in reality, just nonsensical?
I wouldn't say that. It simply couldn't be used as "definite proof" any more than taking a breath or watching a baby being born. That's the path of the discussion.
quote:
Or, at the very least, it's an argument that has no basis on objectivity.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I don't think that changes his point.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:15 am to ThePoo
quote:quote:
quote: people trying to prove that God exists so that their faith-based belief system can be legitimized. Do any of you Christian mensas realize the inherent problem with trying to prove that God exists? ETA: I am a Christian
I mean it is not that crazy of an idea The stuff some physicists are trying to prove right now (now that technology won't actually allow them to yet) would absolutely blow your mind through your a-hole. It is even crazier than your mind actually being blown through your a-hole
The problem is that it is a FAITH-based belief system. Trying to find proof that God exists, undermines the notion that one can find salvation through faith.
If you find definitive, scientific proof that God exists, then your beliefs no long require faith. Believing in gravity doesn't require faith. We know it exists and can demonstrate it and account for it scientifically. God has revealed himself to us through the Bible. That should be all the evidence we need. If you need science to legitimize your beliefs, then your faith (and true belief) is questionable to begin with.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- Ephesians 2:8
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:24 am to Pecker
quote:
If you find definitive, scientific proof that God exists, then your beliefs no long require faith.
I disagree. If we could prove the existence of a God, it's still a far cry from proving the Christian God. Faith will always factor into the Christian belief system.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:31 am to AUveritas
quote:
I disagree. If we could prove the existence of a God, it's still a far cry from proving the Christian God. Faith will always factor into the Christian belief system.
There are inherent issues with seeking a scientific proof for God (or requiring that validation). If you truly believe, the universe itself is proof enough.
This post was edited on 6/9/16 at 8:33 am
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:32 am to Tiger inTampa
My God created the Universe.
Before that, he created the Heavenly hosts. Angels, Cherubim, Seraphs, etc..
He created man in THEIR image and gave man dominion over Earth and free will to decide our own destiny.
Our earliest ancestors disobeyed him when they succumbed to the temptation of the one who had been cast out of Gods presence along with his legion of followers.
Dominion of the Earth passed to the evil one and he was granted control of the natural world.
The sicknesses and calamities of our world are the evil ones payback to his creator. His goal is to cause pain and affliction to humanity and to keep us in the confines of his reality and eternally separated from the creator.
The creator intended for us to be in harmony with him and for our souls to be with him eternally upon the end of our earthly stay. Free will gives the choice to us. The evil one wants to deny the creator relationship with the ultimate earthly creation....the one he made in his image.
The creator has given us a way to overcome the evil one.
So yeah, my loving creator has allowed the evil one to do evil things. Sorry you don't like my God.
BTW: this entire scenario is as likely to be the truth than a story about a creator who is playing a video game simulation.
Before that, he created the Heavenly hosts. Angels, Cherubim, Seraphs, etc..
He created man in THEIR image and gave man dominion over Earth and free will to decide our own destiny.
Our earliest ancestors disobeyed him when they succumbed to the temptation of the one who had been cast out of Gods presence along with his legion of followers.
Dominion of the Earth passed to the evil one and he was granted control of the natural world.
The sicknesses and calamities of our world are the evil ones payback to his creator. His goal is to cause pain and affliction to humanity and to keep us in the confines of his reality and eternally separated from the creator.
The creator intended for us to be in harmony with him and for our souls to be with him eternally upon the end of our earthly stay. Free will gives the choice to us. The evil one wants to deny the creator relationship with the ultimate earthly creation....the one he made in his image.
The creator has given us a way to overcome the evil one.
So yeah, my loving creator has allowed the evil one to do evil things. Sorry you don't like my God.
BTW: this entire scenario is as likely to be the truth than a story about a creator who is playing a video game simulation.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:37 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:40 am to GeauxTGRZ
quote:
quote: Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? Ooh, heaven is a place on earth
How dare you quote Belinda Carlyle and not post a pic of her late 80s/early 90s. She herself back then was more proof that God exists than anything Machu Pichu postulates.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:41 am to Dick Leverage
quote:
The creator intended for us to be in harmony with him and for our souls to be with him eternally upon the end of our earthly stay.
So my parent who has nothing but love for me sent me to the hood to make free will choices to prove to him that I truly love him so eventually I can move back in the house in the nice neighborhood....
quote:
So yeah, my loving creator has allowed the evil one to do evil things
I'm a parent and I can guarantee you if had control, dominion, influence over someone wanting to harm my child I WOULD NOT ALLOW the "Evil One" to do so. Nor, I would venture, would any other parent.
This post was edited on 6/9/16 at 8:43 am
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:42 am to Pecker
quote:
If you truly believe, the universe itself is proof enough.
What about the ones that don't believe? You should look at how Paul defended the faith on Mars Hill in Acts. He didn't say "Just believe." He used philosophy to convince the Greeks of God's existence. It's called apologetics ("apologia" means to defend) and there's a whole branch of Christian theology dedicated to it. It's about meeting people where they are.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:44 am to AUveritas
quote:
What about the ones that don't believe?
Or the ones that never have the opportunity.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:46 am to Tiger inTampa
quote:
Maybe so. But I have definitive proof it/he is not the type of god the devout say it/he is.....
Pediatric Cancer and Child molestation would not be allowed by your version of god.
All this proves is you have a misguided and incorrect view of God, and by God, I mean the one you claim cannot exist.
Posted on 6/9/16 at 8:50 am to Argonaut
quote:
Aren't those just examples of mankind exercising the freewill He was so generous to give us? He certainly wouldn't tell us to do any of it or command a few primitives to write it down so we don't forget.
I think there may be a few passages from Numbers, Samuel and Deuteronomy where he told the "chosen people" to do some of that stuff.
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